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Benjamin: This podcast is sponsored by Knit. Knit is a dynamic ad insertion platform that lowers the barriers to use podcasts as an advertising channel. They enabled businesses of all sizes to reach new potential customers through advertising on premium podcast like CNN, bleacher report, and TMZ. They take the guesswork out of media buying by allowing you to choose which shows geographies and keywords you want to target. If you've been listening closely to this podcast, you'll know that I'm a customer. I've invested roughly $3,000 in podcast advertising, which is the key reason that the show has gone from zero to close to 10,000 downloads per month in roughly six months. Best of all, like facebook and ad words knit as a self service platform with no minimum order size. It's incredibly easy and cost efficient to market your service or product. I believe in this platform so much that anyone who's interested in learning about the net platform can book a free 30 minute podcast advertising strategy session with me to learn about the net platform by clicking on the link in our show notes or by going to MarTechpod.com/knit. That's k n I t, so head over to our show notes or go to MarTechh pod.com/knit. To schedule your complimentary podcast advertising strategy session to start growing your audience with knit bringing podcast advertising to the people
Benjamin: Okay. Today we're going to talk to a startup founder who has somehow managed to bring three of the hottest topics in technology and marketing together, drones, media, and blockchains. Joining us is Stan Khlevner, who is the founder of Airzus, which is a compliant aerial media and services marketplace, utilizing blockchain smart contracts. Outside of being the founder of Airzus, Stan as a commercial drone pilot, and an advocate for the fair use of aerial media. In this episode, Stan is going to tell us about the ever changing landscape of how drones are being used to capture and distribute media.
Stan: Here is our interview with Stan Khlevner, the founder of Airzus. Welcome to the MarTech podcast. Thanks so much for having me, Ben. Always good to have a friend on the show. I'm glad we're able to finally get you on here. So let's start off by talking a little bit about who you are and what Airzus is. Give us a little background on you and your company.
Stan: Yeah, sure, so back in 2016 I was introduced to a phantom three, which one of my buddies had an in his workshop and when I saw it I was like, let's go fly this thing. Phantom three is a drone, right? Yeah. Now it's a little bit of an older version, but at the time it was coolest thing you could buy at a consumer level and once I saw that hovers in place with gps flock and you have almost like a video game controller that you control it with.
Stan: I kind of in a cliche sense immediately fell in love and I bought the thing off him for about 200 bucks, which was a field at the time and then ever since then I've been flying those first few months for obviously recreationally and then something called part one. Oh seven came out in August of 2016 became available nationwide that you could spend 150 bucks or 60 question tests and become certified drone pilot basically. So you are a commercially licensed drone pilot and you started off as an enthusiast like some other people do as a hobby. And you've actually built a living for yourself, flying drones, yeah, not only living but a company around the media and the basically flying for other companies, kind of as an aerial production arm of existing production companies and for all kinds of clients. So outside of your affinity for flying machinery around, you also had a background in media prior to becoming a drone pilot, right?
Stan: Absolutely. So before this I had a corporate guy at a company called Intercall, which acquired a company called Eunice Fair, which is where I came from, which was in the virtual events face and we did a lot of video and basically virtual events and then we transitioned into webcasts and I was a product manager there and a video producer before that. So you had an understanding of photography and video, multimedia, different formats of content and fell in love with drones and basically there was deregulation or regulation that allowed for you to become a commercially certified pilot. Exactly. Give me a sense of what's happening in the drone industry and now that you and I have talked a little bit about this, but there some explosive growth in terms of the number of pilots. Is that regulation or deregulation that allowed people to become pilots? It's regulation.
Stan: Okay, so the existing regulation, depending on who you talk to in the industry, I see it as quite favorable, but still not going far enough on the enforcement end of the regulation. We have rules about where you can fly, when you can fly, but at the end of the day, the FAA is quite limited on its resources in being able to enforce exactly who could fly where and all these rules and regulations because the FAA is a federal agency and most likely if you're out flying your drone, you're going to be encountering from a local law enforcement or concerned citizens or if you're trying to do it in a national park, you'll have a park ranger, but you're not going to get somebody from the FAA or your local fisco office that's going to be enforcing the rules.
Benjamin: Sorry. You said fizz dough. What does FISCO
Stan: visto stands for? Flight Standards District office and their local FAA basically offices around the nation.
Benjamin: They're the drone police.
Stan: Uh, FAA, we don't know who the drunk polices nowadays.
Benjamin: Okay. So for the marketers who are listening, the reason why I thought this was an interesting conversation is there is an influx of drone media on some of the sites that we use, whether it's capturing stock photography or video. And I don't think that the average marketer really has a good sense of what is legally captured and what is illegally captured drone footage. So talk to me a little bit about that. And first off, let's talk about some of the rules and regulations of where you can and can't fly.
Stan: Yeah. So to know that you have to basically understand the classes of airspace and they go from b to e and right now your green to go, if you're in class g airspace during the day, there's a litany of rules that you have to basically follow, have to stay under 400 feet. I'm not going to go into all the details because you can technically go 400 feet over a building if you're still in class g airspace, so you have to know airspace. It's kind of one of the most important things to learn when you become a certified remote pilot.
Benjamin: Right. So you mentioned that there was a 60 question test and basically that is teaching you the rules of the road and I'm using air quotes when I say road because really it's the rules of the air. Just like your driver's test, you need to know when it's legal and illegal to take a left turn when you're a pilot. It's how high you can go, how close to buildings, how close to people.
Stan: Yeah, so a lot of the regulation, if you type in drones, Faa, they'll take you to the small unmanned aircraft systems page in Google and they have the entire list of both as a recreational pilot what you can and can't do and as a commercial pilot what the rules are there.
Benjamin: Okay. So there are multiple ways that people can use drones commercially. Talked me through some of the different use cases where people are using remote flying vehicles for commercial use cases.
Stan: There's like hundreds of use cases ranging from simply grabbing pretty aerial video and images, two firefighters are using with thermal cameras to kind of scope out. The perimeter is a forest fires recently there's been a few youtube videos of people strapping inflatable rafts to drones and if there's someone out there getting attacked by a shark or sinking in the ocean, they just kind of hover the drone over them, drop the raft and much safer and quicker than having a life guard actually swim out to the person and then construction site mapping, which we're doing currently for a number of clients. Nice. Keep going on and on.
Benjamin: So there's a number of reasons why consumers would want access to a bird's eye view or the ability to reach a spot remotely. And one of the topics that you talked about was actually the use of media being able to take pretty stock photography or images of a product or service or landscape. Is that primarily where your work has been focused?
Stan: Yeah, we currently have three revenue streams that we're pursuing with Airzus, one of which is that the other is the compliance block chain that I think we'll talk about a little bit later, and then there's the custom services, so we call it remote pilot services, so depending on what Halo you need on your drone, there's all kinds of cameras you can use. There's all kinds of sensors you can strap onto a drone depending on what the needs of the client are. We can either find the right pilot to do that job or do it ourselves in house.
Benjamin: Okay. Talk to me about the media landscape. One of the things that you and I have talked about before, one of the needs for your product and services is there's a fair amount of drone footage, aerial shot photography. That is illegal, so what do marketers need to know about any sort of image that might be captured by a drone?
Stan: What you have to know is that it's a regulated environment. You're dealing with media that potentially could expose you to legal risk in the fact that you might be capturing or the pilots that you're using might be capturing images of buildings that are basically copywritten or for example, there are countless videos of people flying over the new apple campus in Cupertino and that's in Class D airspace and you need permission to fly in that airspace. We're one of the only places that I know of ehrs is that has editorial footage of the new apple campus for purchase that was basically captured any compliance with existing regulations, so we got permission to fly. We didn't fly over people. There's obviously a number of roads that aren't in that area and there's one extremely popular youtube channel that has updates and I'm pretty sure this guy is not getting permission and if he is, he's flying over roads and again, it's kind of the wild west because the enforcement arm of the FDA at least. I don't know if this is absolutely the truth, but I've heard that it's the Federal Bureau of Investigation. I think they have more things to do at the moment. Then finding out who's flying their drone over the apple campus. That being said, it's one of these things were, yeah, it's technically against regulation and so you're technically breaking the law, so from the customer's perspective, if you're purchasing that, a using that in your marketing collateral and your advertising campaigns that you're potentially exposing yourself to risk there.
Benjamin: So most of the content that I create, I don't use a ton of video for my consulting practice. Most of my clients, you know, we create a fair amount of written content, obviously a fair amount of audio content, but it seems like most of the drone footage that's created that could be questionable is really used for things like video advertising. How can a marketer no, whether their footage has been shot legally or illegally.
Stan: The best way to know if you're getting custom footage, so if you're getting something specifically for your needs, make sure the pilot is a certified remote pilot. There's a database online. You can enter their last name and the state they're from and basically do that. Check yourself or you can have them produce their certification card and if you want to take it a step further, you can actually be on site while they're flying, but most people don't have the time for that and that's kind of the reason why I created air services to focus on compliant Ariel's as a place for marketers, for anybody that needs areas to go were the guys that watch out for that and that's our business.
Benjamin: So right now there isn't a ton of enforcement by the FAA, but people essentially are breaking the law to capture aerial footage for the people that have been caught and charged. What are the repercussions, not only for the pilot but for the marketers when you have stock photography that you've purchased that has been illegally shot.
Stan: Most of the enforcement has been on. The company's actually flying illegally. Basically I hesitated to say illegally because it's noncompliant. Again, Congress hasn't passed a law. They so pretty much regulation set by the FAA, so it's noncompliant. That being said, there is an email out there because everything is so early. The precedent is just coming out in the public, but there's supposedly a fine if you're a real estate agent and you willingly and knowingly are hiring the kid down the block to shoot your aerials and you're using it in your flyers and advertising for the property, they're supposedly an $11,000 fine that the FDA can issue. I don't know that this has actually been practiced and done by the FAA, but that's kind of out there if you follow the news and forums, so it's still really early in the space.
Benjamin: What I'm hearing from you is that a yes, it's relatively easy for commercial pilots to certified. There are some relatively complex rules around where you can fly and the different types of airspace and for marketers who are purchasing aerial footage for stock photography or video, there's a question about whether the content that they're buying is in compliance, but there really aren't any teeth too breaking the rules. So if that's the case, what's the purpose of Airzus?
Stan: Well, we don't think that that's going to last very long. The analogy I always use is when we were transitioning from horse drawn carriages to cars, yeah, there weren't any stoplights at intersections, but eventually that technology came about and as a society we all realized that, hey, it's probably a good idea too, have these stoplights at intersection so people would stop and not crashing into one another. It took a while to get there. Pace of technological innovation and drones being depending on who you're speaking to, still relatively new in the general public guys. I think once there's more massive the option, and don't get me wrong, there's over 100,000 certified remote pilots right now. As more and more people are getting comfortable with drones in the skies, I think that's going to become an issue that pervades not only general public but in purchasing any kind of aerial content. So if you want to mitigate against that head of time, you'll go to places like Arizona or any other places that verify that they are compliant to get your aerial media.
Benjamin: Okay, so essentially the bet for Airzus is that there will be more interest and regulation and concern about the use of drones as the adoption of them continues to increase. Tell me about where we are right now. In terms of the overall media landscape, how pervasive is the use of aerial footage, drone media, how big of a industry or how well has it been? Adopted?
Stan: A study came out, I believe it was 2014. The estimated that aerial video and photography was about a $4,000,000,000 market globally and this is accounting for all kinds of photography from helicopters to drones and that's obviously a growing market. I wish there was more uptodate information, but we internally did, I don't want to say a study, but we just looked at 100 random netflix shows and cross reference there imdp pages for production credits and notice that over half of the hundred that we looked at had some kind of aerial unit. So maybe now after listening to this podcast, you'll start noticing that there's quite a lot of adoption, not just for production level movies and TV shows, but even in marketing campaigns, a lot of facebook videos when they're promoting events, you'll have kind of a quick little aerial of the San Francisco skyline. So they're
Benjamin :growing every day. So there is essentially, there's the media and publishing industry, there's commercial films, there's advertising, there's real estate, there's really a fair number of industries that you've mentioned that are of significant scale that has already adopted aerial media.
Stan: Yeah. I've been doing this for a few years now and I still get people that come up to me once in awhile and say, hey, this is really cool. I've never seen a drone. Just the other day I was landing and one of these pocket attendance was like, Hey, can actually touch it and see what it looks like. So one day they will be as pervasive as helicopters and airplanes. Like now we look up and see helicopters and airplanes. It's like normal, but for drones it's still the early days.
Benjamin: Yeah, well it's a growing industry and I think there's lots of commercial uses and plenty of adoption already in marketing, so now that we have an understanding of how drones are being used and what the landscape is, I think that's a good stopping point for us today and that wraps up this episode of the MarTech podcast. Thanks to stand club near for joining us in part two of this interview, which we'll publish tomorrow. Stan is going to walk us through how he uses blockchain to make the use of drone media safer for pilots and content buyers. If you can't wait until our next episode and you'd like to learn more about Stan, you can click on the link to his bio in our show notes, or you can visit his website [inaudible] dot com, which is a AI, r z u s dot Com. Special. Thanks to knit for sponsoring this podcast.
Benjamin: If you're interested in podcast advertising to grow your reach and expand your audience, click the link in our show notes or go to MarTechh pod.com/knit to book your complimentary media strategy with me. If you're a subscriber to the MarTech podcast, thank you for being a member of our community. If you have questions, comments, or if you'd like to be a guest on the show, feel free to reach out through the contact link in our show notes or on social media are companies handle on twitter and Linkedin is Ben j Dot Shap, Llc, and my personal handle is Benjay shop, which is b e nj o s h a p. If you haven't subscribed yet and you want a weekly stream of marketing and technology knowledge and your podcast feed in addition to part two of our episode with Stan Clevinger from Arizona, we've got some great episodes lined up in the next few weeks, so hit that subscribe button in your podcast app and we'll be back with you tomorrow. Okay, that's it for today, but until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy.
Benjamin: This podcast is sponsored by Knit. Knit is a dynamic ad insertion platform that lowers the barriers to use podcasts as an advertising channel. They enable businesses of all sizes to reach new potential customers through advertising on premium podcast like CNN, bleacher report, and TMZ. They take the guesswork out of media buying by allowing you to choose which shows geographies and key words you want to target. If you've been listening closely to this podcast, you'll know that I'm a customer. I've invested roughly $3,000 in podcast advertising, which is the key reason that the show has gone from zero to close to 10,000 downloads per month in roughly six months. Best of all, like facebook and ad words knit as a self service platform with no minimum order size. It's incredibly easy and cost efficient to market your service or product. I believe in this platform so much that anyone who's interested in learning about the net platform can book a free 30 minute podcast advertising strategy session with me to learn about the net platforms by clicking on the link in our show notes by going to MarTechh pod.com/knit. That's k n I t, so head over to our show notes or go to MarTechh pod.com/knit. To schedule your complimentary podcast advertising strategy session to start growing your audience with net bringing podcast advertising to the people that's knit.
Benjamin: Today, we're going to continue our conversation about a startup founder who has somehow managed to bring three of the hottest topics in technology and marketing together, drones, media, and blockchains. Joining us is Stan Khlevner, who is the founder of Airzus, which is a compliant aerial media and services marketplace, utilizing blockchain smart contracts. Outside of being the founder of Airzus, Stan as a commercial drone pilot and advocate for the fair use of aerial media. In our last episode, Stan told us about the ever-changing landscape of how drones are being used in media. If you missed that episode, I recommend you go back and give it a listen. That said today, Stan is going to talk to us about how he is combining both the use of drone captured footage and blockchains to make drones safer for both pilots and content purchasers.
Benjamin: Here's the second part of our interview with Stan Khlevner, the founder of Airzus, and welcome back to the MarTech podcast. Thanks for bringing me back. Great to have you here again, and just to recap what we talked about in our last episode, we talked about sort of what's happening in the drone industry in the sense of there's been some regulation that's making it relatively easy for people to become commercial pilots. There are some relatively complex rules in terms of where and when you can capture footage, but marketers and media production agencies are using aerial footage more and more. You mentioned roughly 50 percent of the Netflix shows that you surveyed had the use of aerial footage, so I want to talk to you today about how your trying to make the capture and distribution of aerial footage safer for both the pilots and the content purchasers. So let's start off by you just giving us an overview of what is a block chain and let's just set some context for everyone listening. Sure. Blockchains are
Stan: basically distributed ledgers. They use cryptography to encode information and share it amongst what they call note partners or the nodes of the blockchain. Hence a chain. So most people associate blockchain with Ikos and bit coin.
Stan: is a much more sophisticated technology. There's lots of coins out there and lots of architectures that you can build on top of your blockchain error. Zeus, we're basically taking a token list approach, which is based on something called the hyperledger fabric architecture where we don't need a token and we're not doing an ICO. We're simply using the blockchain in the intended sense that this is something that's distributed and immutable amongst partners and even competitors in the industry, so we can have one
Benjamin: frame of reference, four
Stan: various media and compliance that we're putting all into this blockchain that we're building.
Benjamin: I'll be totally honest, I think I have an above average understanding of what a blockchain is and cryptography and sort of how bitcoin works and I still understand 50 percent of what everybody says about them. My understanding of what you're saying is that there is a way for you to essentially validate transactions. Is that a fair way to think about how you're using blockchain? There's a distributed way where multiple people can say whether something is authentic or not.
Stan: Right, so let me try to make it as kind of real world as possible. So we sell aerial media
Benjamin: and our competitors also sell aerial media.
Stan: The transactions that are stored for this aerial media. Everybody has their own servers right now. So what we're building is a distributed blockchain where if you think about it as literally a ledger document that everybody has here, we have it for the entire industry, amongst all the players and we all have a copy of this on our, what we call nodes, so everybody's able to see that this particular piece of media was purchased by this particular entity with an associated license. The way we map it all together is the fact that we also imbue the contract with the compliance data for that media. So you're buying a piece of media that was captured in compliance or if it was captured in class B airspace and you have a waiver, you're able to actually show that and verify that and everybody in the network and see that as opposed to saying somebody is selling illegal stuff. So that's where the benefit of the blockchain is for us.
Benjamin: Okay. So you're essentially creating a standard for everyone in the air media industry to be able to validate that a piece of footage that was shot or a photo, a piece of video content was shot by a specific pilot with an active license and a waiver if necessary so people can understand whether their content was actually shot in compliance with the FAA.
Stan: Right. And we're marrying that to a particular transaction regardless on whose system that transaction takes place, so shutter stock or any other stock video site that would participate in this. They can say that this particular piece of media has a particular license associated with it and it was not only is it captured compliantly, but it's also been purchased by someone according to a particular license and that has implications for the future as well, where certain companies saying that block chain technology in the future we'll be able to verify but media and almost like a digital rights management sense is being used in accordance with a license that it was bought. That's kind of much more forward thinking vision of this, but that's where this could be taken.
Benjamin: Okay. So let me just read that back a little bit to make sure that I and our audience understand what I said was you have the ability to validate that a piece of media was captured with the appropriate licenses and waivers, but you're actually taking it a step further and then when the purchaser of that content acquires the rights to whatever photo or video, they can actually validate that it was captured. So when I buy something, it comes with here's all the rights management, here's all of the licenses and waivers that were associated with this piece of content that you have purchased. So you're taking it beyond just, hey, the pilot did it right. But when I buy it, I could say, hey, I could prove that the content I purchased was captured in accordance with all of the regulations set by the FAA.
Stan: Exactly. And so we have a video of business overview video on our about us section, or it's on Vimeo and youtube, but at the around the one minute market shows that what we're doing is marrying the licensee licensed sore of a particular piece of media with the data and metadata around the capture of that particular piece of media and the compliance information and storing that in the blockchain and the benefit of doing so is the fact that we're not just a centralized authority. We're opening this up to our competition as well. We just want to basically promote the use of compliance areas.
Benjamin: So talk to me about why you're doing that. You're basically creating this rich system that allows content creators and content purchasers to validate that everything is being done on the up and up and then you're giving that away to your competition. Is that a sort of core differentiator for you? Why are you giving away what seems to be your secret sauce?
Stan: The real secret sauce is what we're calling our flight compliance engine and that's the proprietary nature of what emphasis is building. That's how we can actually tell if a particular piece of media was captured in compliance for without compliance and being able to attach certain waivers. So again, I talked about all the regulations around drones, but you can get a waiver for pretty much every single regulation from the FAA. So for example, even myself who's a certified remote pilot, if I don't have a waiver for flying at night, then I can't fly at night, but if I get a waiver now I can. So there's no way outside of the system for you as a purchaser media to know that I have a waiver other than me actually sending it to you or verifying it in a contract or in an email, whatever. So we're building a system where you can actually verify that as a member.
Stan: And I think there's value in that in the future when drones have transponders on them and a lot more information and data is being processed on the flight itself. We're building the system that says, you know, this particular piece of media was captured and compliance. That's our proprietary nature. We want this blockchain to be private in that it requires membership and just somebody can just become a member, but we want it to be a kind of inter industry blockchain where again, it's in the interest of everybody that is selling this type of media to be able to say that, hey, we're basically selling media and licensing it that is compliant and what we're doing is saying if you want to associate the compliance and figure that out, that's the software that we're selling, the blockchain itself as something that we just want to build because it's in the best interest of everybody to be able to verify either on their own or using our technology.
Benjamin: Okay. So essentially the business case for you is if you build an industry standard for to be able to distribute FAA compliance media, you're lowering the barrier for people to get access to the types of content and your proprietary software is basically what hopefully people will use to be able to capture the media in accordance with all of the regulations. Yes. Capture and verify it
Stan: post capture.
Benjamin: So tell me about what's going on with your business. Tell me about where you are and what are you trying to accomplish at this point?
Stan: Well, we're right now very early phase stretch startup. My Co founder is the technical side of building out the actual blockchain itself. We have a few interesting meetings down line of companies that want to help us formulate this blockchain in a way that makes sense for not only us but for the competition. And at this point we're kind of doing drone jobs, posting up as much content as we can on air zoos and growing kind of organically at this point.
Benjamin: So an early stage startup, uh, your, your fundraising.
Stan: We are fundraising but you been speaking to investors and it's very hard to do get an understanding from someone that understands not only drones but media and blockchain. So it's a little daunting for certain investors. Rightfully so. It is complicated work, but we're looking for the right investment partner that really kind of understands is forward looking in this industry.
Benjamin: So in the blockchain space, early stage startup fundraising and trying to make it so commercial pilots and marketers alike can safely creates an acquire digitally rights managed compliance aerial footage. Did I get all that right? Yeah. That's the long way of saying it, but yeah. Well why didn't you just say that in the beginning?
Stan: Well, I think the explanation that you read initially it was the best way to put it, but that's much more in depth.
Benjamin: Let's bring this back to the MarTechh audience and our listeners. You know, as before we let you go, what are some of the things that marketers need to understand about Air Zeus, drone footage, media compliance. What are some last parting words about your industry and your business? You want us to know?
Stan: Basically if you're a marketer and you need aerials, you should know that there are people that are certified to get those areas. So if there is a photographer that you want to take a picture of a Pepsi can, you can't just use Pepsi's logo. They have the copyright to that and there are rules around that. Same thing with modern releases and with drone media, there's kind of this new area where yes, there's also compliance around aerials, so if you're not using a certified remote pilot when you're acquiring media for yourself, you should and you should factor that into the media that you're buying and ultimately if people just walk away from this and realize that there's basically a regulatory environment around Ariel's, then I've done my job and that helps me down the line. It helps the industry as well.
Benjamin: I think one of the most important things that marketers listening to this conversation should know is that some of the stock photography that is on the air zoo site is gorgeous. It's incredible. The landscape photos are wonderful. I've looked at them, I've used them as a great place to get affordable distinct footage. They have photography, they have videos, and you can also request custom shoots, so for those marketers out there that are looking to get a different visual aesthetic for their website, you know, if you're looking for anything that's a famous landmark, something that's nature or urban, you should think about drone media, aerial footage, and I personally, since Stan is my friend, I'm going to go on the record of saying you should go to Air Zeus Dot com, air z u s dot Com. Check out some of their photos and if you have questions I'm sure stand would be happy to answer them for you stand. Any last parting words before I let you go?
Stan: Thanks so much for the plug. If anybody plans on buying aerial media and once a heavy discount code, feel free to reach out to me directly. My email is s k at air c u s dot Com and if you're interested in flying drones at all or just wanting to learn more about it, happy to talk as well.
Speaker 1: Okay, and that wraps up this episode of the MarTech podcast. Thanks to Stan for joining us. If you'd like to learn more about Stan, you can click on the link in our show notes to go to his bio, or you can go to his website, [inaudible] dot com. Hey, I us.com special. Thanks to knit for sponsoring this podcast. If you're interested in using podcast advertising to grow your reach or reach a new audience, click the link in our show notes or go to MarTechh pod.com/knit to book your complimentary media strategy session with me if you're a subscriber to the MarTech podcast. Thank you for being a member of our community. If you have questions, comments, or you'd like to be a guest on the show, feel free to reach out through the contact us link or you can get ahold of us on social media. Our twitter handle is j Shap, llc. You could also just look for Ben j, shop on Linkedin or twitter. Those you'll find my personal accounts. If you haven't subscribed yet and you want a weekly stream of marketing technology knowledge and your podcast feed. We've got some great episodes lined up in the next few weeks, so hit that. Subscribe button on your podcast APP and we'll be back in your feed tomorrow. Okay. That's it for today, but until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy.