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Benjamin: Welcome back to the MarTech Podcast. This podcast is sponsored by Searchmetrics. Searchmetrics sets the standard for innovation in the content and search engine optimization industry. They support businesses who care about understanding both how to use content as a marketing channel and how to improve their organic ranking in Google. If you're an enterprise level marketer, the Searchmetrics suite of software and services will help you optimize your existing content, help you understand what topics you need to cover next, and how to ensure that your writers produced effective posts. There's billions of google searches happening every day in Searchmetrics. Gets your stories to the top. Okay. 

Benjamin: Today we're going to talk about a topic that is likely the present and future of digital marketing automation. Joining us is Magnus Unemyr, who is a marketing automation consultant and the author of Data Driven Marketing with Artificial Intelligence. Outside of being an author and speaker, Magnus is a former Internet of Things software developer, turned Internet marketer and marketing automation consultant who supports his client was inbound content marketing, sales funnels and marketing tool automation. In this episode, Magnus is going to give us an overview of marketing automation, some of its best practices and the tools being used to drive efficiency and growth. Here is the first part of our interview with Magnus Unemyr, the author of Data Driven Marketing with Artificial Intelligence. Magnus, it's wonderful to have you on the MarTech podcast. Thanks for joining us.

Magnus: Thank you for inviting me. 

Benjamin: Let's start off with some formalities. I am positive that I butchered your last name. How do you say it? In Swedish? I pronounce it in the Moodle, but in English it's usually becomes something like, you know my number or in English, you and a buyer. You're based in Sweden, is that correct? Yes. Okay. Well I appreciate you staying up late to record this podcast and I just want all of our listeners to know that you put an extra effort to be a MarTechh guest so you get a gold star. 

Magnus: Okay, no problem. 

Benjamin: So let's talk a little bit about marketing automation. That's your area of expertise. Um, can we start off? Why don't you just give us a little background on you and some of the work that you've done to give our listeners some context? 

Magnus: So I have been mainly international software industry for 25 years, the last 20 years in different marketing positions including product marketing manager or product manager and the vice president of sales and marketing. So I had been in a B, two b marketing space for a very long time and seems this industry is quite international. We have a distribution network in 50 countries. We quickly realized that it was very cost efficient to work more activity of Internet marketing and because we're a software company, marketing automation seem to be a really good fit for us because we understand advanced software in combination with the need for Internet marketing services. So we started to use marketing automation quite a lot in my previous company and for the last couple of years I'm now working as an independent marketing automation consultant helping companies introduce marketing automation. We the purpose of generating more leads and nurture votes leaves automatically into paying customers. So growing the business basically. 

Benjamin: So you had a technical background, worked in project management, moved into Internet marketing, and now you're specializing in marketing automation. Let's talk a little bit about how you define marketing automation. Given the summary for the people that are new to this space. 

Magnus: I think marketing automation has different things to different people to some people simply a registration form on a website and a drip sequence of emails afterwards, and to me that is not marketing automation. That is just simply email marketing. For me, even basic marketing automation is much more. For example, a marketing automation system is tracking the behavior or with digital footprint of website visitors to check which pages some of them site visit, which emails the open, what links in the emails they open, perhaps how different leads watch a video clip. Some of websites and marketing automation system usually provides something called lead scoring or a mathematical algorithm is used to estimate how close particularly it is to purchase and we can then use lead scoring numbers to trigger different than nurturing workflows for different people, depending on how close they are to buy or please tell close the system thinks they are to buy at. The marketing automation system should also provide adaptive behavior and modify the content on the website or in the emails based on insights gathered from data, so dependent on what website pages have been visited or gmos have been opened or clicked. The website may provide different copy or imagery the next time that specific person arrives to the website. 

Benjamin: Okay. Some really interesting things there and I think you broke up marketing automation into four or five different components. First off is leveraging the data that you have to track and understand your users' behavior, what you called their digital footprint. Second, as creating a lead scoring system to understand how valuable a potential prospect is. There's the trigger is when a user completes a specific action, being able to lodge outreach and then modifying content that is specific to that customer. What I'd like to do is go through each one of those individual steps and just have you give us some of your thoughts on some of the best practices or how people can get started. Let's start with tracking the behavior of a customer or a prospect that comes to the website and understanding their digital footprint. Tell me a little bit about the best practices and what are some of the tools and services companies are using to track behavior. 

Magnus: Typically these capabilities is a standard feature of any marketing automation system you may buy on the open market, so something like hubspot market too, infusionsoft soft perhaps, and it really works by recording the Ip address of the particular website. This in combination by storing a cookie specific computer, so the next time this comes back to the website, we can check the Ip and wrestle that computer in combination with the existence of that cookie and determine whether or not that particular visitor has been to the website before and if so, who would that person may be? 

Benjamin: So you mentioned hubspot, Marquetto, infusionsoft. To me, those are the enterprise level marketing automation systems. They're generally high price points, thousands of dollars, I believe per month. There are other tools that are probably more early stage and growth stage startup tools. There's conversion can't. I've heard of Klaviyo. There's a handful of other marketing automation softwares that you can use to to fire a triggers. Talk to me about the difference between some of the downmarket tools and some of the sort of traditional players like the hubspot Marqueta. What's the difference 

Magnus: in terms of tracking the behavior? I think even tools to pry too much the same things, so they would track who is visiting the website when they do it, how often they do it with the Patriots v this edge, they will track the remote. You open an email or a click in the link in the email or click a link on the website. So in that sense I think even below him system still pretty much the same thing as the high end tools. I think the difference is larger in other areas. 

Benjamin: Okay. So talk to me a little bit about lead scoring, which was the next component of marketing intelligence. Once you have a sense and you're able to capture the data from your customers and you're essentially using a system to score them, walk us through the fundamentals of lead scoring. 

Magnus: So traditionally it live scoring has been done by designing a company specific algorithm of judges that if someone is close to a purchase and believed scoring algorithm can be pretty simple. So shows a lead to gifting plus one for every page view or website is it perhaps gifting plus free points for downloading a pdf or getting past the two points for opening or clicking on the email, maybe get five points for viewing the minimum for two seconds, Sofa on with website, and if you visit job opportunities page, then you'll get perhaps minus 10 because then you're likely a job searcher of rubber venda potential customer. So traditionally you have designed your own deep scoring algorithm. Yeah, to determine which lead is more likely to buy compared to an average. But nowadays you can actually use predictive analytics, which is part of artificial intelligence or ai are an ai algorithm, compares the behavior of a particular lead to the behavior of actual customers before they became customers. 

Magnus: And dependent on how similar they behavior is for the new lead, we can judge that we're are likely to buy soon as well. Um, you typically get to lead scoring range of zero to 100 percent. The affiliate is only 25 percent ready to buy, perhaps to can trigger an automatic email sequence. You have a soft sales message of whenever someone do a little bit more on the website, they may get a 50 percent lead score and the marketing automation system may choose to send a different email sequence with the hardware sales message. For anyone who has actually received a 75 percent lead score of us being probably quite likely to buy soon. Amendment marketing automation system could create the Todo task in the crm system. Such federal sales rep actually a call to that person think Amanda, a phone call. 

Benjamin: So there's a couple of components there that you mentioned. First off, you're using the behaviors to assign certain points to a lead to understand what their likely value is and now instead of just using actual behaviors, are trying to map what a specific prospect has done relative to other people that became customers to understand their value. And that's where ai comes in. You've also mentioned that you're segmenting the lead score is based on people that are engaging with your content, not great prospects that need more soft selling, and then there's the people that are likely in buy mode and you're assigning scores. You mentioned sort of doing these in 25 point increments and trying to divide the lead scoring based into four different components. Is there any standard scoring model that is being applied for all types of businesses that different from being a B to b to c? Can you go into a little bit more about the sort of standards for creating your company's specific algorithm? 

Magnus: I'm not sure if there is an assumption standard. I think every company is quite unique and they have different pieces of content. Phantom may have a different value in that industry, so I've never used sentence substandard, but draw or design a company specific lead scoring model that fits the purpose of that particular company. 

Benjamin: Okay. So it's really something that has to be done internally. Assigning the leads. Talk to me a little bit about once somebody hits the different milestones within your lead scoring mechanism, they go from your zero to 25 who are window shoppers, 25 to 50 prospects that need more and 50 and above potential buyers and likely buyers. Talk to me about what are the triggers that marketing automation uses to drive people from one channel to the other. Is it just email marketing? Are there other ways for outreach that can be fired when somebody leaves? Score improves. 

Magnus: Depends on what system you use. Checklists you usually use in your marketing. Traditionally it is email marketing, but it can be other things like push notifications. For example, it can be a message on social media, posting messages on slack, slack or a twitter for example, but usually emailed, bumped. It can be roofing says, well, you can send sms text messages. Is he mobile networks as well? Although that is a bit more intrusive and we should probably do that. We have a little bit more care 

Benjamin: and there's also the manual process that you mentioned of having someone in your sales organization do outreach more hand to hand combat. Talk to me about some of the different ways people are using triggers and what are the differences between some of the tools. Is this where the difference between the Hubspot Marquetto infusion soft of the world different from the down market tools like active campaign in mailchimp? 

Magnus: Yeah, I think this is various theological difference, so for example, would you can do is that it's a particular lead is visiting the pricing page on your website. That is likely a sales trigger, so that could improve the lead score or it can trigger a specific email sequence. You could send an email to the closest to a distributor or a sales rep and have that sales guy calling the person because he visited the pricing page recently. For example, I usually invite people to a webinar or the member of a reach, a particular leap score, so say someone has reached 50 percent lead score and may maybe an automatic email ripping out the invites them to a webinar. That webinar can be a prerecorded, has kind of a video of being the form of an automatic webinar and if someone actually clicks on the link in the invitation email and sign up for webinars and maybe get reminders perhaps one day in advance or a one hour in advance to actually join the Webinar, have a signed up for after the Webinar or maybe a followup nurturing sequence and that may be different for people who have registered to the Webinar and actually attended compared to those who registered and didn't show up. 

Magnus: So there are many ways you can automate the funnel and we nurturing process and hook in, for example, webinars in that customer journey. 

Benjamin: Interesting. I'm curious to hear another. This is a little bit separate from marketing automation, but what are the webinar tools and how are you connecting the dots between the technologies of. I'm not sure which tool you use for your business, but I'm assuming it's an enterprise level tool. How are you connecting the data from your marketing automation service to webinars? 

Magnus: I'm usually using sort of from citrix called Goto Webinar or for manually managed to webinars and it's an excellent and very robust service, worked every time for me go to Webinar or integrates nicely with many marketing automation system, so for example, you use hubspot or Marketo, then new and get access to data on how certain leads have signed up for and attended or not attended, two different webinars and you can even use the marketing automation workflow logic to some different nurturing behavior of dependent on how people use reacted in terms. So for that particular Webinar, there are other services that are more geared towards recorded or prerecorded, fully automatic webinars from multiple times everyday. Twenty four by seven. They vote down the manual intervention, whereas a tool called the ever webinar or for bathrooms. 

Benjamin: Alright, so you're tracking your customer's behavior. You're understanding how they're engaging with your content. That feeds into your lead score. You're using your triggers to send emails, push notifications, do some social media, even sms or drive people into some prerecorded content. Having your sales team reach out. You also mentioned that you can modify the content that you're sending out based on what someone's lead score or behaviorist. Talk to me about that process and what are some of the tools people use their. 

Magnus: So in most marketing automation systems have fairly advanced capabilities to send different types of emails to different people dependent on data. We have on our main database, so it may be based on what country they are located in north haven, it may be they, some of them to get to the footprint, so what two pages or page views if I am had or have ever been opened or clicked a particular email, but it can also be based on the segmentation data, like their job title or other data via may have owned them, for example, are purchased spectrums in the shop. 

Benjamin: So there's the opportunity to basically take whatever data you've collected on the specific user, whether it be their geography, whether it be the data from a form that they've filled, whatever you can collect on the specific user, and then you can pipe that back into your outreach. So for example, using email marketing, there's the opportunity to send an email instead of it being a generic template that can say hi person's name, we see that you're the this position that that company and we're reaching out because here's our value proposition. 

Magnus: Yeah, especially you can do it much more. You can obviously choose which email to send if you send a particular email when you can also replace pumps or the content. So not only say Hello Joe and being served via personalization token, but you can actually replace complete paragraphs of text or columns of text on the. You can replace the imagery, the dependent on whether or not that particular person and for example a man or a woman or if a person is in a different price or in a different age range and you can change your subject line of email dependent upon the information you have on that particular lead in with database for example. 

Benjamin: Yeah. One of the things that I've done with my outreach for my consulting business was I segmented my outreach list into early stage companies, growth stage companies and midmarket companies and the value proposition that I included in my email copy was different for each one. So for early stage companies I'm saying I can help you establish a great brand identity for growth companies is about scale. For midmarket it's about new channel validation. That's one of the ways that I've used marketing automation and that's not purely just inserting someone's name, but also describing your value proposition, your company, what you're trying to accomplish. Even the content that you're presenting to someone based on what you know about them. 

Magnus: Yes, but you can go a little bit further as well. If you, for example, know that a particular lead has been visiting the windsurfing section of your website quite frequently, I've never been to the motorboat section. Then email may include an image of the wind surfing bolt or as the other lead who has been on a motorboat section on the website, get the same email. It will actually get a photo of a motorboat instead so you can personalize both imagery and the copy to a much larger extent than just insert keywords. 

Benjamin: Unfortunately, the windsurfing section of my website is still under construction, so we're just going to have to give everybody the same motor boat. Yeah, 

Magnus: you can do the same. Actually, we have call to action buttons, so on the website or even an emails, but particularly on websites. You may have a red to green or yellow contraction button on that page, and whenever someone visits your website in the early stages, for example, with call to Action Button will offer a free pdf download, but whenever someone has downloaded a pdf and we'll come back, there's no point in offering the same pdf and gain in medical direction button so you can use smart contractions that actually changed the offering and maybe lay out in real time depending on who visits the page and what they have done in the past, so whoever has actually downloaded that pdf already, the same call to action button will change and no longer offer that pdf download, but instead, for example, or for a registration to a webinar around whoever has attended such as Webinars, we'd get a contraction bottom that promotes a price quote, for example. The next time they come back to the webpage 

Benjamin: makes a ton of sense. The marketing automation is not just about automating your outreach, but also the retention and reengagement tools like your website or whatever properties you have, mobile app, et Cetera. Here's the big problem that I have with marketing automation. You've mentioned a couple of times, but wait, there's more, and to me, marketing automation is logical, incredibly complex, and incredibly sophisticated, so for people that are starting to think about marketing automation, the options are virtually endless. Where do they start? 

Magnus: I think there's just a small loan. Take it step by step. You cannot do it all in one go. So the absolutely minimum marketing automation solution obviously is to have some call to actions on the website that leads to a landing page or a registration form that offer some incentive to register. So typically a lead magnet, like a pdf download for example, once you haven't saved their email address or contact information in your crm on 

Benjamin: a fairly simple nurturing email sequence is probably where you have to start and then it can extend up on that later on. Yep. I think you start small. You start with the basics, blocking and tackling, using the assets that you already have, and then you expand over time to do more sophisticated sayings and build in other tools like your push notifications or even integrating things like Ai, which is the conversation that we're going to have down the road, which is the future of marketing automation, so I think that's a good stopping point for now. That wraps up this episode of the MarTech podcast. Thanks to magnesium or for joining us in part two of this interview, which we'll publish tomorrow. Magnus is going to talk to us about artificial intelligence and how it is being integrated into marketing automation. If you can't wait until our next episode and you'd like to learn more about madness, you can click on his bio in our show notes or visit his website [inaudible] dot com, which is new n e m y 

Benjamin: Also, the link at our website will direct you to a page where you can download a copy of madness book about marketing automation, which is a gift that he's given to all of the MarTech podcast listeners. A special thanks to searchmetrics for sponsoring this podcast. If you're looking to grow your online presence, go to to request your free tour of their platform. If you'd like to read the transcript of this podcast, we've published it on our website, You can also click the link in our show notes to go specifically to the page for this episode. If you're subscribing to the MarTech podcast, we want to say thank you for being a member of our community. If you ever have questions, comments, if you'd like to be a guest on the show, or if you'd like to suggest other topics you'd like to see covered, click on the link in our show notes, or you can reach us through our social media channels. My handle is Benji b e nj o s h a p. If you haven't subscribed yet and you want a weekly stream of marketing and technology knowledge and your podcast feed, in addition to part two of our episode with Magnus, or we've got some great episodes lined up in the next few weeks, so hit that subscribe button in your podcast app and we'll be back on your feet in no time. Okay, that's it for today. We'll be back with you tomorrow with Magnus, but until next time my advice is just focus on keeping your customers happy.

Benjamin: Welcome back to the MarTech podcast. This podcast is sponsored by our friends at Searchmetrics. Searchmetrics sets the standard for innovation and the content on search engine optimization industry. They support enterprise businesses who care about both, how to use content as a marketing channel and how to improve organic rankings in Google. If you're a marketer, the searchmetrics suite of software and services will help you optimize your existing content up. You understand what topics you need to cover next and how to ensure that your writer is produced effective. There are billions of google searches happening every day and search metrics because your stories to the top Okeydokey. 

Benjamin: Today we're going to continue our conversation about a topic that is the future of digital marketing: artificial intelligence. Joining us is Magnus Unemyr, who is a marketing automation consultant and the author of Data Driven Marketing with Artificial Intelligence. Outside of being an author and a speaker, Magnus is a former Internet software developer turned Internet marketer and marketing automation consultant who supports his clients with inbound content marketing, sales funnel, and marketing tool optimization. In our last episode, Magnus gave us an overview of what is marketing automation and some of the best practices, some of the tools that people are using to drive efficiency and create growth. If you missed that episode, it's really insightful. Go ahead, go back and give it a listen. Today, Magnus is going to focus specifically on how to integrate artificial intelligence into your marketing automation. Here is the rest of our interview with Magnuson Udemyr, the author of Data Driven Marketing with Artificial Intelligence. Magnus, welcome back to the MarTech podcast. 

Magnus: Thank you very much. 

Benjamin: Great to have you back again and again, thank you for staying up late. I know it's probably getting on in the evening in Sweden where you're based, so we appreciate you sticking with us. 

Magnus: No problem. 

Benjamin: So in our last conversation we talk about marketing automation, the aspect of tracking behavior of your prospects to understand how they're engaging with your content. Creating lead score is to understand which prospects are the most valuables, using triggers to push messaging out to them and modifying your content to make sure that you're delivering the right message to the right person at the right time. Today I want to focus our conversation about how technology is growing and marketing automation is actually being automated through artificial intelligence. So first off, artificial intelligence means a lot of things to a lot of different people. Everything I know about it, I learned from the terminator movies with Arnold Schwarzenegger. Can you give me a marketer's version of what artificial intelligence actually means? 

Magnus: It's very good question and I'm not really sure I have a good answer. The recently is not artificial intelligence or ai comes into every part of the marketing industry and we will find a ai to move its way into pretty much every corner of a marketing industry. There are hundreds of marketing automation, social solutions already on the open market, very combined software tools that uses ai to improve the efficiency and results. What is really interesting with ai or perhaps you should call it machine learning or correctly, is fat and it's solution that uses ai or machine learning is data driven so it makes decisions and predictions that are based on numerical facts rather than a gut feeling and we ever interesting aspect of ai or machine learning is fat lose software algorithms are adaptive and we can change and optimize their own behavior over time as new data becomes available. 

Benjamin: Talk to me about where machine learning and artificial intelligence are being used the most in marketing today. 

Magnus: There are already many managed solutions on the market, so hundreds of them. There are ai powered marketing solutions. That use is something called natural language processing to harvest vast amounts of information from different websites, attempts of millions of websites on the Internet and find competitive and market intelligence from that data. There are certain tools that are using ai to improve the return of investment on digital ads and where our ai tools, but to campaign optimization so those software tools will actually buy digital ads autonomously and shift the ad budget automatic overtime across channels during different times of the day using different creatives to make sure that each ad is using the best result for the dollar spent. A very large use of ai currently is hyper personalization, but if we can predict which content most likely resonates with a particular website visitor or email recipient, there are ai tools that helps. 

Magnus: We have content optimization or content strategy and that can be used for search engine optimization or just to understand which blog posts for dress on. I better leave the readers and 30 interesting use of Ai is cro commercial optimization and where our ai tools that can automatically change the design of your landing pages to make it produce better results, so those ai tools, we use something called genetic algorithms and try different design variations in different generations. So the first generation we'll try some design aspect, for example, the color of a contraction bottom and when it tries to different versions and whichever version produces the best result so then the parent or a new generation of offspring tries different design changes. For example, if a phone to text size or imagery and if you have enough traffic to your landing page, such ai tools can generate hundreds of thousands of different design variations of a landing page to work out automatically. Which design combination produces the best commercial ratio. 

Benjamin: So what are the types of businesses that are integrating ai? You mentioned there's natural language processing for marketing intelligence campaign optimization for advertising content optimization. Conversion rate optimization, are these primarily large enterprise companies? Are the service providers building ai services expensive? Help me understand where ai is being applied today. 

Magnus: There are obviously different tools in different price wrenches. I think that many of the solutions that I mentioned are quite enterprise grade. However, hyperpersonalization is available for many companies. It's fairly low price point. Many web shops or ecommerce platforms have a product recommendation systems or personalized search results systems that are not too expensive. There are tools that use this ai for crm data enrichment, harvesting more information about your customers and employees of those companies from Internet sales prospecting tools for example, so I would say if there are a wide range of services in different areas that costs very different amounts of money. I use it quite interesting tool in which is quite cheap. It's called Lumin five and lumen five. This small software tool that helps out or generate video clips that promote blog posts. So if I write a blog post, I can enter a url to that blog post into this tool and their ai engine will harvest information from my blog post and work out which keywords seems to be the most important in the blog post. It turns those into headings and then it lay out scenes, much like slides in powerpoint presentation and it finds free imagery or free video clips from the Internet. That seems to be connected to those keywords when it out to generate a short video that can be used to promote the blog post. 

Benjamin: That's funny. You're the second person to mention Lumen five to me this week. Actually, I think I heard of it on the social media marketing podcast that I listened to and we are actually very close to testing lumin five to take some of the audio clips that we have, which we transcribed for this podcast and turn them into short form content to then publish. Can our social media posts 

Magnus: not. Very interesting aspect of that tool is that if you have a blog and you feed in your blog posts every week or month in a rss feed, then match tool. It can actually monitor and listen to the RSS Feed and whenever you publish on your blog post, they autogenerate the movie. 

Benjamin: Very interesting. So tell me some of the other tools that you're using personally that are related to ai. 

Magnus: I've been using predictive lead scoring for awhile. We talked about in the previous episode, but traditionally lead scoring has been about designing a mathematical algorithm that tries to get tomato. Someone has to buy, but the predictive lead scoring, we use ai technologies to predict how someone is to buy and the way that works is that the Ai Algorithm analyzes existing customers and works out how they behaved the way became customers and then the total can compare the behavior of a new lead who is not yet a customer. The the behavior of those who are now customers before they became customers. Typically you would get a lead scoring range of zero percent to 100 percent, which is a guesstimate on how readily that person is to buy soon, 

Benjamin: so before somebody actually engages with your content, you're able to map them to previous customers. How much traffic do you need to be able to create a predictive lead scoring algorithm? 

Magnus: I think the amount of traffic is not necessarily the right measure here. I think you need, for example, in hubspot you need to have the minimum 500 paying customers as a reference to compare it to for the algorithm to have enough data to be trained on, so you need to have 100 or preferably thousands of people to train the allegory tomorrow. 

Benjamin: Right? Of course. You need a large enough base of conversions for the predictive algorithm to understand who to copy. Right. What are the common threads? Yes. Okay. Are there any other artificial intelligence tools that you're using? 

Magnus: Yeah. I think perhaps one of the most common associates of Ai today is in chapter Oh boss. As to be able to know chapter robots is expected to be the next big thing after websites, email marketing, and social media marketing, so chat robots are going to be a very big thing probably in the near future. Many of these chat bot platforms are using ai to a larger or smaller extent to implement with Bot platform that you can use to create your own personalized chatbot for your particular company. 

Benjamin: So what extent are chat bots actually useful? How far of a conversation can they carry on? 

Magnus: It depends a little bit about what platform you use to build it and how much effort you put into training it. I would say that most chatbooks today are not as intelligent as people may think, so most chatbooks, so I'm not very good at handling completely open ended questions. Conversations that are more reasoning rather than specific questions. I think the most successful and easy to implement chatbots today are quite narrow and they are driving the conversation in a quiet controlled manner. So typically manage that. Books today are asking questions on the person chatting, vivid. Just have to select the predefined answers so there may be a question on what are my big three, four or five predefined, honest or assessed selection buttons that you can create dependent on whatever you click fan of a chalkboard will continue with a new question and narrow down that question, for example, and eventually be able to answer frequently asked question or a presales question for example. 

Benjamin: So I have a very difficult question for you. What's the meaning of life? I'm 42. I think I just wanted to make sure that you are in the Chat Bot. You came up with at least an answer. Yeah. 

Magnus: That doesn't mean you want to. Her earlier this year, Gogi presented a new technology whereby I'm a voice chat Bot to come up the only answer incoming questions that they can actually initiate outbound phone calls and call people and have conversations with people and that probably means that tens of thousands of people in the call center industry. Would it be good to be out of jobs in the next few years? 

Benjamin: That's an interesting topic is when you go farther and farther in marketing automation and using artificial intelligence as technology becomes more pervasive, theoretically jobs are being reduced. How do you feel about the use of artificial intelligence and how that affects the workforce, 

Magnus: so ai will not be only transformative for the marketing industry, but it will be a disruptive ai will be in every part of the marketing industry and the new way to change that. It's just a fact that they will have to accept and I think we will also have to accept that some jobs will be lost to ai in the marketing industry. That will be new jobs created as well. The jumps that we probably be last first is any job description might have to do with analyzing data to make data driven decisions as well as repetitive work tasks of any type. So if your job is to analyze the return of investment on, for example, digital ad purchases, then you probably wouldn't be replaced by an AI robot fairly soon. But if your job is more strategic or creative design graphics for example, then you're safe a bit longer. At least, but I think the issue of see that ai is augmented marketeers and helping them such that they can spend more time doing very interesting stuff rather than go in just to be groundwork. 

Benjamin: So podcast hosts are safe. I think so. Good. Okay. Tell me a little bit about your book. What's the purpose of the book? Why'd you write it and what does it cover? 

Magnus: So I wrote the book because I couldn't find any. What I felt was a really good book on marketing. The artificial intelligence. There were only a handful of books on the market and they were either particularly good or they were targeted towards a specific part of industry that didn't interest me too much. So my aim was to create the definitive guide on marketing the artificial intelligence and try to make the book that provides the best overview of the topic and they just written in a popular scientific level. So and CEO or Cmo or digital marketing manager should be able to understand it, but it tries to go a little bit deeper than just the philosophical topics as well. Great. 

Benjamin: Well, you've been an author of multiple books, one of them you've kindly offered to give to our listeners, so why don't you tell our listeners not only about your artificial intelligence book, where can they find that, but the other books that you've offered to give away to our listeners. 

Magnus: So in my latest book, data driven marketing mean artificial intelligence is for sale in print and the ebook versions on Amazon, but I also wrote a number of books on traditional marketing automation and that book is called mastering online marketing. It's 240 pitches and you can download a pdf version of that for free and you're just go to you and the Myer Dot com forward slash get book to download that book on marketing automation for free. 

Benjamin: Okay. [inaudible] dot com slash book and Human Ameren Dot Com is spelled you an e, m y book. Magnus, I want to thank you for telling us a little bit about marketing automation, about artificial intelligence. It's been a pleasure to have you on the podcast and thank you for staying up late to be our guest 

Magnus: and thank you for inviting me. 

Benjamin: Okay. That wraps up this episode of the MarTech podcast. Thanks again to Magnus for joining us. If you'd like to learn more about madness and you can click on his bio in our show notes or visit his website, [inaudible] Dot Com, u n e m y, and if you're interested in magnus book, you can go to [inaudible] dot com slash book special thanks to search metrics for sponsoring our podcast. If you're looking to grow your online presence, to request your free tour of their platform if you're a subscriber to the MarTech podcast. Thank you. I hope you are enjoying this podcast. We love bringing them to you. We appreciate you listening and dedicating your time to learning more about marketing. We consider you part of our community, so if you have questions, we'd like to reach our guests. If you have comments on an episode or if you have topics that you would like us to cover, go to the link to our show notes. 

Benjamin: There's a contact us link or you can reach out to us on social media. There's links in the show notes there to find us on linkedin and twitter. My handle is Benjshap, llc. Pretty much every social media platform. If you haven't subscribed yet and you want a weekly stream of marketing and technology knowledge and your podcast feed, we've got some great episodes lined up. We're talking about Instagram, about privacy, about youtube, about enterprise of a marketing. There's a ton of marketing material that we're going to cover in the next few weeks, so hit that subscribe button, their podcast APP. Okay, that's it for today, but until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy.