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Benjamin: Tonight we're going to talk about creating awareness for B2B businesses. Joining us is Logan Lyles, who is the Director of Partnerships at Sweet Fish Media, an enterprise podcasting production agency. Logan is also the co-host of the B2B Growth Podcast, and in this episode, Logan's going to talk to us about why B2B businesses are increasingly dependent on multimedia content production. Here's the first part of our interview with Logan Lyles from Sweet Fish media. Logan, welcome to the MarTech Podcast. 

Logan: Hey, thanks so much for having me. Ben. It's a pleasure to be on with you. 

Benjamin: It's great to have you here. And my understanding is this is the first time you've actually been a guest on a podcast. 

Logan: Uh, yes, I am one of the cohosts on B2B Growth, have been doing that for about the last month and a half, but this is the first time I've been honored to be a guest on someone else's show. So thank you so much for the honor, Ben. 

Benjamin: Absolutely. Well, we've talked over the last couple of months and I've been following the BTB growth podcast closely and you produce a daily show, which I have no idea how you get anything else done when you're producing five episodes. 

Logan: Yeah. Um, we've systematized it pretty well divided up all of the tasks that it takes to keep the show running from doing the interviews to recording and editing the audio to the graphics and the posting and publishing. So we've got a pretty good team and we've learned some lessons in having our own show in the last two and a half years that help us and keeping the system running for our client shows that we produce as well. For sure. 

Benjamin: My primary strategy was I just pulled into my recording studio and I say hi to my wife once a day or two kidding aside. Can you give us a little background on your career and what led you into sweet fish media? 

Logan: So my career has kind of a squiggly line. Ben. I graduated college in 2008 with a journalism degree. I had an emphasis in photojournalism, learned a good bit about photography and video, right. Is video is becoming hot in the journalism world. Probably got into BDB tech sales for the next 10 years. So kind of a abrupt segue there and in that time as things have changed in B to b sales and marketing over the last 10 years, I started to realize where my skills as a journalist and in content creation could actually help me in my b, b sales career. And so it was actually through some of the content that I was finding on linkedin and other places that initially connected me with James who is the founder of sweet fish and got me connected with the team and inevitably built the relationship that led to my current role on the sweet fish team. 

Benjamin: Okay. So it sounds like you're the guy with a photo or a video camera in your hand and then when you got out of college, decided that you needed to feed yourself, so you went into sales and that led you into B to b and now you're connecting the dots in terms of multimedia, content creation, and you've worked your way into the podcasting that. Exactly. So let's talk a little bit more about what sweet fish media does. So everybody who's listening understands why you're an expert in multimedia content production for B to b businesses. 

Logan: Sweet fish media is an agency that has really niched ourselves down into the area of producing podcasts for B, two b brands. Ben, and in our opinion, there are really two key value propositions with having a podcast for your brand. The first is what a lot of people naturally think of, and that's what we call the content waterfall that's created out of the audio content that you can produce a lot of conversations. You're probably having, whether you're in sales or marketing or customer success at your given organization. You're having a lot of conversations with other people in your space, people within your organization, customers, prospects, hitting record and having those conversations in the context of a podcast gives you the opportunity to share that content more readily to take that conversational content, which is usually really good stuff that other people should be hearing and be able to distribute it, and then what's more it can be repurposed into other formats, which I know is part of our conversation today. 

Logan: The other part that we help businesses think about and B to b brands focus on in having their own podcast is the doors that it can open when you have your own podcast to build strategic relationships with prospective clients, with industry thought leaders, with strategic referral partners, it's a lot easier to open doors and have conversations with those people that you want to be talking to most. By inviting them to be a guest on your podcast, you get a chance to give them some value early in the relationship to deepen that relationship with some content collaboration that you're working on together. We're big fans of that piece of it as well. I don't think a lot of people necessarily think that when they think podcasting, but it really is kind of a double edged sword as you're doing the one to many. You're also getting that one to one relationship building as you're producing this multimedia content. 

Benjamin: Okay, so it sounds like you're an expert in content production. You started off in photography, video production, now you're getting into audio and you mentioned the content waterfall. Can you tell me what you mean by that? 

Logan: So for instance, we have a team of 19 content writers that focus on re purposing the audio from the podcast episodes that we produce, for instance, on our own show B, two b growth, or for the clients who show we produce and we found that that audio content can be repurposed into linkedin status, updates, into blog posts, into infographics, into a lot of different formats where you can reach people with that content in a lot of different ways. I think part of the reason that people are listening to podcasts and podcast listenership is growing, is that it's a medium that can be consumed passively. If you're driving on your commute or you're walking the dog or even doing the dishes or at the gym, then you can listen to a podcast, but you can't necessarily watch a video or read a blog post at the same time. 

Logan: You want to also be able to reach people in other ways with that content from your podcast so that your podcast isn't an echo chamber, so in all of the shows that we produce, linkedin is a big strategy. Repurposing those audio episodes into long form blog posts are a great way to get that content into other eyeballs, but then it's also a way to promote the podcast and get people back in and subscribed to your show by linking back to your show in itunes. From that blog post that was repurposed from the audio episode in the first place. 

Benjamin: Essentially there's a we'll loop of content creation that you can repurpose to drive people either back to your content or to whatever your sales mechanism. So tell me a little bit about the type of customers you're working. I know that they're B to b focused, and tell me also what are some of the common themes that they're trying to accomplish? 

Logan: We focused a lot on B BDB, b tech companies. We've been fortunate enough to work with some of the fastest growing B, two b brands in the MarTechh space like drift and terminus. So in that area, those sort of tech companies are really trying to develop thought leadership and build their brand identity. For instance, in the MarTechh, you know, this is the MarTech podcast, so it's a topic probably hot for your audience. It's become a very crowded space. I saw a post from the guys at Gong yesterday showing just from 2011 to 2018. How many vendors just in the MarTechh space there are. I mean the graphic was overwhelming as I just looked at it and a lot of our customers are looking at a podcast and this content creation engine that it starts as a way to build their brand, to build connections with their audience rather than competing on price and features and benefits. 

Logan: It gives them a way to stay top of mind with their audience and it also gives them a way to allow their audience and their prospective customers to get a peek behind the curtain and humanize their brand a little bit. The folks at drift have been doing this for a while with their podcast seeking wisdom and oftentimes people feel like they know Dave Gearhart, the VP of marketing at drift because they hear him personally share and talk about things and share personal stories in addition to talking about content that's relevant for that audience. So I think there are a lot of ways that people can use the podcast, but building a brand and showing thought leadership in your space are definitely some of the top ones that our customers have in mind. 

Benjamin: So moving away from talking specifically about podcasting, do you feel like the content waterfall that you mentioned, repurposing your content in multiple different ways is something that can happen in different formats? Like can you do that with video? Can you do it with your blog posts? 

Logan: I definitely think that you can. I mean there's a post that I go back to from Gary Vee consistently where he talks about content on content, on content and how content can breed more content. I think some people don't necessarily think strategically about repurposing the content and then putting it in those different formats. I got a lot of feedback from a linkedin post I did recently about linkedin selfie videos. You know, I felt like there are a lot of folks that we're sharing content maybe valuable, maybe not in what I call linkedin selfie video, and even if there was good content, if it wasn't suited and optimized for the video format, then the message was oftentimes getting missed. At least it wasn't my feed. For instance, not putting captions on your video in Linkedin for people like me and I think a lot of people out there based on the responses I got from the post, just kind of scroll right past that because it's not as easy to consume. 

Logan: So I think that it can definitely happen in a lot of different ways. The key is thinking about not just copying and pasting from linkedin to twitter or to instagram, but thinking about, okay, this is going to be good for Instagram, but how do I make this content into something that actually fits this platform? Instagram is very, very visual, so creating something that makes sense for that platform. Linkedin for one reason or another, the gives further reach to written content. So oftentimes we and I personally don't do videos or images in my posts and Linkedin to help it get broader reach. So I think one of the big things to think about is optimizing the content that you repurpose for the platform that you're repurposing it for and where that starts can be a lot of different ways. We just happen to really like podcast because it's very easy to get started. I didn't fix my hair perfectly for this interview knowing that we weren't going to be on video and it's very easy for people to feel a little bit more comfortable behind a mic that necessarily in front of the Camera Lens, so we think that it lends itself to getting started a little bit faster, but I think the content waterfall and the content on content holds true whether you've got a podcast or whether you're looking at the portion of your content creation that you have a good start with. 

Benjamin: Okay. For everyone that's listening, I want you to know that for each podcast I do prepare for video and I have a full can of aquanet at a Tuxedo on. 

Logan: Perfect kidding aside. 

Benjamin: Talk to me a little bit about the difference between promoting a personal brand and a corporation because I see a lot of brands, like you mentioned, trying to promote the people that work for the company to humanize them. What's the line between promoting yourself and promoting a company? 

Logan: I think at least linkedin is a platform that we're very, very active on and I have been personally for some time and one thing I've noticed there is that company pages just tend not to get a lot of engagement. We talk with folks pretty regularly that are looking to start a new podcast and they say, well, linkedin is a good platform for us. We've recognized it as a good avenue for us to head down, but we're not seeing that much in the way of results. And then we start digging in and asking about how many of their people are posting, creating content, sharing, engaging personally, and it's not a lot. It's their company page stuff which gets some engagement from their employees and maybe a few customers, but I think when your employees, whether they're salespeople, marketing folks or customer success or whatever the case might be, you hit the nail on the head when you said when people within the company are putting content out there and putting themselves out there, it humanizes the brand so much more. 

Logan: I think of some of these brands that I talked about and the first thing that comes to mind our faces and names of people that I know on the team that I see regularly on Linkedin, and I think that's a big part of why linkedin has grown so much is that there is always a face to the profile that you're connecting with. Unless you're just ghost person and I tend not to connect with those folks on linkedin anyway, but we saw twitter kind of ebb and flow and people not knowing am I talking to a bot or not. So I think that's part of the reason linkedin has grown so much in that people's personal brand. There's a great way for them to be able to build on that and connect with people through their personal brand on linkedin. I think that that as a whole contributes to the company's brand as far as online there. 

Logan: I don't know if there's necessarily a line, but I know that if you have a btb company and you have a policy of everything has to go through the checklist before you can post anything on twitter or you have to have the line in your bio that says opinions expressed are my own. That really doesn't hold up because if people see your name, they know you're with this company, they're going to associate that with the brand, so I think you just have to think a little bit differently about how the collective personal brands, the people on your team contribute to the overall brand of the company. 

Benjamin: There's an interesting trend that you're mentioning, which is the effect that hr has on marketing. If you're hiring great people and if you're hiring people that have high visibility, they actually contribute to the marketing of your product and I think that's more specific to b, two b brands. You mentioned that Linkedin is a channel that people are using to promote what they're working on. Are there any other channels that you think is having that effect? 

Logan: We have started to see video as a really effective tool in promoting your brand. Like I said before, I think that the issue there is doing things and putting out content that lend themselves to that platform, the linkedin selfie videos that don't add a lot of value and don't engage people and don't hold people's interest where it's, you know, maybe a four minute long rant. What we've seen some success with is producing short, concise, funny videos that engage people and make them laugh and engage them on an emotional level. So I think that video is a platform that can be used really, really well for a lot of B, two b brands if it's done correctly. And if it's done with a lot of thought behind it and the two areas we think that video can be used really well is in ways where it can be used to trigger an emotional response and especially laughter. If you can make someone laugh, you're connecting with them on an emotional level and you're opening up that door. So I think that that's an area that a lot of B, two, b brands could be using more often. 

Benjamin: I think that's incredibly thoughtful and that the fidelity of video does evoke emotional response and if you get it right, it's very powerful and if you get it wrong, you look like a guy that's recording b, two b businesses in a sweatshirt, in your living room, which sort of misses the target that you're going for. So let's dive into the weeds more on what channels people are using for b, two b brands and some of the tactics in our next episode. So that wraps up this episode of the MarTech podcast. Thanks to Logan for joining us in part two of this interview, which we'll publish tomorrow. Logan's going to give us some tips on how to improve the shareability and vitality of your B two b content. If you can't wait until our next episode and you'd like to learn more about logan or sweet fish media, you can click the link to his bio. 

Benjamin: Our shout outs for to sweet fish Special thanks to search metrics for sponsoring this podcast. If you're looking to grow your online presence, go to to request your free tour of their platform. If you didn't have time to take notes while you were listening to this podcast, don't worry. We've published an overview and the transcript of our conversation with Logan on our website, which is MarTechh, or if you want to jump right to this episode's page, just click the link in our show notes. If you're a subscriber to the MarTech podcast. Thank you for being a member of our community. If you have questions, comments, or if you'd like to be a guest on the show, you can click the contact us link or the link to our social media pages, which are again in our show notes. If you haven't subscribed yet, and you want a weekly stream of marketing and technology knowledge in your podcast feed. In addition to part two of our interview with Logan lyles from sweet fish media. We've got some great episodes lined up in the next few weeks, including conversations about instagram, public relations and media buy, so hit the subscribe button in your podcast App. Okay, that's it for today, but until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy.

Benjamin: Welcome back to the MarTech podcast. This podcast is sponsored by Searchmetrics. Searchmetrics sets the standard for innovation and the content and search engine optimization industry. They support businesses who care about understanding about how to use content as a marketing channel and how to improve the organic rankings. In Google, if you're an enterprise level marketer, the searchmetrics suite of software and services will help you optimize your existing content, helps you understand what topics you need to cover next, and how to ensure that your writers produce effective posts. There are billions of google searches happening every day and searchmetrics gets your stories to the top. 

Benjamin: Today we're going to talk about creating awareness for B2B businesses. Joining us is Logan Lyles, who is the Director of Partnerships at Sweet Fish Media, which is an enterprise podcast production agency. Logan is also the co-host of the B2B Growth Podcast, and in our last episode, Logan gave us an overview of how and why B2B businesses are increasingly dependent on multimedia content, specifically podcasts. If you missed that episode, really insightful, go back and give it a listen. Today, Logan is going to give us some tips on how to improve the shareability and virality of your B2B content. Here is the second part of our interview with Logan lyles from sweet fish media. Logan, welcome back to the MarTech podcast. 

Logan: Hey, thanks for having me on again. Been excited to extend the conversation, man. 

Benjamin: Yeah, me too. I'm glad that we got your first actual time being a guest of a podcast out of the way, even though you've been on a ton of podcasts. How did it go? What was it like sitting in the other chair? 

Logan: It's about the same. Just having a conversation. That's what we love about podcasts is that you get to have a conversation with someone and be able to share the nuggets of value out of it, so hopefully the last conversation was valuable for the audience and excited to get a little bit more into some detailed tactics today. 

Benjamin: I totally agree. It's great to have a nice casual conversation and posted for other people to hear. One of the things that I thought was insightful in our last conversation was you talked about the content waterfall, which is recording longer form content and then breaking it up and repurposing it into different channels and with sweet fish media, since you focus on podcast creation for enterprise B2B businesses, you're coming up on this audio forum content, talking about the mechanics of taking that content, breaking it down, and where are you sharing it. 

Logan: It can lend itself to a lot of different formats. We start with Linkedin, obviously B to b brands. Linkedin as a platform that is very, very effective. A lot of buyers on there and a lot of targeting that you can do as well. Your own websites. Blog is another place that you can go for re purposing the audio content. For instance, for our show for B, two b growth, we create a graphic for each episode. Since podcast is mostly audio and there's not a whole lot of visual assets to it. We try to make sure that we create a graphic for each episode that lends itself well to twitter, instagram, other places like that that might be a little bit more visual. That's something that you definitely want to think about if you're having a podcast, is making sure that you have a graphic that's easy for people to see. What is this episode about and being able to share it out on other channels that are a little bit more visually engaging. 

Benjamin: Let me ask you a question about that. When you say you're creating a graphic, is it that you're just creating essentially a replacement for the graphic that you use for your podcast? Like here is the icon. I have the MarTech podcast icon and I pretty much use it for every single episode. Are you creating an infographic or just a new logo for the episode? 

Logan: It's kind of in between those two. We create a template when we launch a new show so that it has the same branding as the show logo itself, but it's not just a repeat of the show logo, not necessarily an infographic. Although if you have a conversation or an interview that lends itself well to stats and figures, you could definitely create an infographic out of it as well, but what I'm referring to is making sure you've got a graphic that has the episode number and the headline of the show and the guest's face nice and large and having that template to be able to make it repeatable increases the share ability of that podcast episode after each show, for instance, after guests are on our show, we send them a link to their episode on Itunes so that they can share it out and also a link to the blog post on our website that has that graphic specific to the episode that has their episode number and their profile photo so that it's easily shareable on other channels. 

Benjamin: Interesting. So essentially creating this graphic is meant primarily for you to share with the. So they have something that is specific to them to share. Exactly. All right, so you're creating some visual content out of your podcast. You're transcribing it or creating some sort of a summary for your blog. What else were you doing? 

Logan: So the other area is it's really great content for your email campaigns, pretty much everyone listening to this and marketing has an email list or multiple email lists obviously, so taking that content from those conversations and wording it in a way that shares the value as a great way to get additional touches with your email list and add some value to them by sharing the content that you think they would find most interesting, engaging and valuable from the podcast episodes. 

Benjamin: It's interesting you basically hit on what our next growth strategy is, which is we're going from transcribing our interviews to figuring out a format that is more interesting as an overview, a summary, and then we're going to take that and create an email newsletter. So for the people that are listening, eventually they will be able to have the show notes delivered to their inbox so they don't have to take notes because the content can be dense. Talk to me about where else you're distributing your content outside of the assets that you own outside of your blog and your email list. 

Logan: You know, linkedin has really been the biggest strategy for us to be able to get the content out there in an area where people are living day to day when they're not coming to our blog. It's tougher and tougher to get people back to your blog. I love your point of going from a transcription of an episode to a summary that's written in an engaging way, in a digestible way. We do that for a lot of our clients as well in writing long form blog posts, but linkedin has been by far and away the biggest strategy for us and for our clients to be able to get that content in front of them, a much broader audience and build their audience and their brand by engaging with those folks in that platform and inevitably getting people as subscribers back to your podcast. 

Benjamin: Okay, so linkedin as the primary source where you're taking your content and publishing it in an asset that you don't own, the linkedin platform, twitter, instagram, Youtube. Are you focused on any of those other platforms? Are they. Are they relevant for being to be grants? 

Logan: I think they're relevant to b, two b brands. They're not a key part of our strategy just because we've really doubled down and found what works on Linkedin, so we're continually focusing on what we know best and figuring out as social media changes, linkedin, facebook, twitter, their algorithms could change tomorrow, they could change by the time this podcast goes live. So in order to really get good at one platform, you do need to focus a little bit on one, kind of master it and then move from there. So I think those other channels are definitely valuable for b, two b brands. We've just found linkedin be the most valuable for us and for our clients. So we found some specific strategies that really work there to get super tactical. 

Benjamin: Okay. So let's go dive a little deeper into linkedin. Can you tell us a little bit about the mechanics or the repurposed your multimedia content and getting it on Linkedin? 

Logan: So one of the things that we learned by having our content writers repurpose audio episodes from our show Bob Growth and for our clients' podcasts is that linkedin's algorithm favors longform status, updates over linkedin articles. Linkedin's publisher platform is really nice and you can format something that looks really good, but if you write something in that status update field that gives you 1300 characters, which equates to 250 to 300 words. So we're talking pretty short in the form of long form content, but writing they're actually gives you further reach to your second and third degree networks, especially if that post gets engagement early and often. And we have some ideas around there. So I think step one that we learned is writing status updates rather than long form articles on Linkedin. 

Benjamin: Okay. So that's kind of the key things that I've heard from a couple other content creators. A lot of independent consultants is make sure that you're writing posts and essentially the best practice is you write a statement and then you use the link that you're trying to drive people in the comments. So talk to me about what you see in terms of engagement. People are seeing your posts, you're getting 10, 20 extra visibility, but to people actually engage when you're writing status updates as opposed to sharing the link. 

Logan: Yeah. You know, I saw a ton of engagement last week on that post that I mentioned in our last conversation about linkedin selfie videos and what people could do better. I saw a lot of engagement from my first degree network. I think the post had a 100 plus likes, but what was more surprising to me is that it had 100 plus comments and a lot of those comments were from people outside of my first degree network. We find that when a post gets engagement early, linkedin's algorithm puts it in front of more eyeballs, especially if you're doing the things like you mentioned and we're talking about already doing a status update instead of an article. Putting the link in the comment. But I've found that as the number of views grow, the number of likes and comments grow as well. So I've taken some time to systematically make sure that I follow up with that engagement to generate more conversations as well. 

Benjamin: So what I'm hearing is a, you're posting a status update. If people start engaging with it, it reaches beyond your first level contacts, the second and third so you get more impressions and then you can take the people that are starting to comment and respond to them and build a conversation. I'm still curious because instead of putting a link in the actual post that someone is designed for someone to click through to and drive traffic to the piece of content that you want to engage with your putting it in the comments. So are you getting impressions, comments, conversations, but not getting people to actually experience your content? Or do you find that people are going into the comments and then clicking off to the link at the same rate as if you were posting the link straight into your feed? 

Logan: I think all in all, you're getting more click throughs because instead of getting 100 views of the post and to Click throughs, you might get 20,000 views of the post and dozens and dozens of click throughs. It's more shaped like a funnel than a one to one relationship, but I think getting it out to a wider audience does increase your chances of that click through. And the other piece that I think is important there is that a lot of people, and I see this on Linkedin a lot, even with podcasts or with videos or with webinars, they either don't write something. They just put the link so it's a big block and you might click on it or you might not. And like you said, it might not be seen by as many more people. But what a lot of people do is they tease the content. They say, click through here to listen to this podcast and learn the three hacks we heard from x, Y, Z, or what this company did to increase their seo ranking by 200 percent or whatever the case might be. 

Logan: What we have found effective is to actually share the value of the content, so a lot of people might say, well, that's decreasing your click through rate, but what we found is that it builds your brand at a better rate. That was part of what drew me into sweet fishes. I was seeing all of this valuable content from James, the founder of the company, and they were usually repurposed updates from people he's interviewing on btby growth. So even if I didn't click through, I was associating all of this valuable content with sweet fish even before I was actually listening to the podcast. So I think we need to realize that people aren't always going to click through. Sometimes we're afraid of, oh, what if I decrease that click through, but when you're actually putting out content that is valuable for your audience and your goal is to deliver them value rather than to necessarily get a click through, then you're going to win. In the end, it's playing the long game more than it is the short game, but over the long haul, we think that that's much more of an effective strategy. As you build your brand and associate your brand with the value that people are getting out of your content, 

Benjamin: so let me try to summarize what I'm hearing is even if the click through rate is lower, used the example of two people clicking on 100 views, which is a two percent click through rate. If you're getting 20,000 views at a point two percent click through rate a significantly lower, you're still have more overall volume because the reach is so much higher and probably more importantly you are getting an impression with your content for your brand more frequently and that's what really matters because you need to raise your impression level higher in a B to b brand. It's not just a one impression. Click, impulse buy. You need multiple impressions over a long period of time. 

Logan: Exactly. 

Benjamin: Any other tips or tactics related to Linkedin and distributing your content? 

Logan: Yeah, I think there are a few other things that people can do. If you don't have a podcast or maybe you're not the best writer or you're in sales on your btby team and you don't have time for content creation, start with engaging with other people's posts. Follow people who are your prospective clients or are good referral partners and start engaging with the content that they're putting out there because what a lot of people don't realize is when you comment on someone else's post that appears in your networks feed, so Ben, you and I are connected on linkedin. If I comment on someone's post, you'll see an update in your feed. Logan lyles commented on this and if they see a thoughtful comment on valuable content, that's another way to get your name and your brand out there either personally or from a company perspective in front of more eyeballs. 

Logan: The other thing on engagement I would recommend people do is if you're putting out content, don't just put it out there and then just check back a week later to see how many views, likes and comments you had. When people comment on your posts, they're opening up a conversation with you. Take advantage of that and strike up a conversation with them. It's going to give you two benefits, one, it's going to give you the opportunity to engage with that person and build a relationship who could potentially be a client or a referral partner or whatever the case might be, and to even if it's from you, the author of that Linkedin Status Update, the more engagement a post gets when you reply to those comments you're getting, that will boost the visibility of that post out to your second and third degree networks more often because linkedin's algorithm favors more engagement, so engaging with people's comments on your posts as well as commenting on other people's posts are things that you can do without a whole lot of time investment and James and I did a whole episode on btby growth, on how to leave thoughtful comments on other people's posts because there are some quick ways that you can do that without a whole lot of time investment that can give you a lot of benefit in building your brand and increasing those impressions. 

Benjamin: Okay, so essentially what you're saying is when you're posting, you're creating a conversation with the people that are in your community and the more active that you are fostering that conversation, the more likely it will be to have visibility. The more impressions you get for your brand. What are some other ways for you to foster conversations? 

Logan: A big one is by starting an engagement group. I'm a member of multiple engagement groups on linkedin and they're different than linkedin groups, so you have your network, you have your profile page, you can go and join groups on Linkedin, but just because of the logistics of the way those groups work, don't find a lot of engagement there and so what we've started to do is use engagement groups which are basically message threads where you can use the messaging section of linkedin. You know if you and I were on Linkedin, we're messaging each other back and forth, kind of private message or direct message to equate it to other platforms. You can also create a group message that's kind of like creating a group message in message or if you're an android user, a group text message, whatever the case might be. You can create that same sort of group messaging thread on Linkedin and something that you can do there is you can start conversations. 

Logan: You can put people together. I started one recently and two of the people were targeting the same buyers and it allowed them to strike up a conversation, so it allowed me to be kind of a connector of the group and helping people build valuable relationships. And then the other thing that we use engagement groups for is me personally. As I mentioned, I'm involved in multiple engagement groups. Anytime I have a new status update, go live, I put a link to that status update in the engagement group so that the people that I'm connected with most closely, the people that I have the best relationships with, I'm not just leaving it to chance if they happen to see my post that day or they happen to be on Linkedin when I post again. So that gives them a very easy opportunity to go like and comment on my posts so that it gets further reach because again, linkedin's algorithm favors engagement, but it really very diverse engagement in the first hour or two. So that's a way to make sure that you're staying top of mind with your closest connections and then you can work together to give early engagement to each other's posts and that helps get more and more visibility. So it's kind of like a mini networking group that you can create for yourself on linkedin that can benefit you as well as likeminded people within your network that are close connections. 

Benjamin: The I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine strategy of content marketing. 

Logan: Yep. That's definitely one way to look at it. And we think there's a lot of relationship building that can happen in a podcast. We love the relationships that we build by being able to collaborate on content and then content sharing within these engagement groups on linkedin. So you've just got to think about ways to use social media as not just this megaphone, but a way to actually replicate what you do offline. Ben, you and I have known each other for a little bit. If you emailed me and said, hey, I need a favor about this or that. Then we'd have a conversation about it using social media to do those same sorts of things and finding ways to help each other out and build those relationships where you have mutual benefit is often missed by folks in the BDB space trying to use social media to grow their audience. 

Benjamin: I think that's a great tip and I think if I had to summarize what we've talked about in this conversation as you're creating multimedia content and repurpose it and breaking it down into smaller chunks, publishing it. If you're looking for a BDB brand primarily on linkedin, using status updates with the link that you're trying to drive people to in the comments, you need to be active in the conversation after you post. And then there's also this notion of having an engagement group to show linkedin that the post is valuable by having engagement early after the post has been published. Did I miss anything? 

Logan: Nope. You know, and James, our founder, had a really great article on seven ways to get thousands of views on your linkedin post. We can probably link to that in the show notes. I think that is one that he's gotten a ton of good feedback on and people have taken some practical stuff away from. So we'd be happy to share that with folks as well. 

Benjamin: And I will give you some proof to how that works. I use this content promotion strategy that we've been talking about last week for the first time where I published a status update. It included an image. The image was actually the MarTech podcast, moving up into the number one slot in Google for the keyword MarTech podcast. And that post got 5,000 views, 65 lights of 13 comments. But my previous posts were somewhere in the 300, 500, 400 views. So just posting an image and writing a one sentence blurb made a 10 x impact in terms of my posts, visibility so I can vouch that this strategy does work and the way that I learned it was from the article that you mentioned, which we will publish in the show notes for this show. Logan, I really appreciate the advice. I appreciate the direction on how to improve BTB, reach and awareness, and that wraps up this episode of the MarTech podcast. 

Benjamin: Before we let you go, I want to share a few things that I think will help you make the most of the time you've already invested in this podcast. First off, if you'd like to learn more about logan or sweet fish media, you can click on the link in our show notes or go to sweet fish We will be sure to link to the article that sweet fish media's founder created about seven ways to improve your linkedin and reach. If you're interested in growing your online presence or you want to learn more about searchmetrics, who's the sponsor of this podcast, go to To request a free tour of their platform. If you didn't have time to take notes while you were listening to this podcast, don't worry. We've published an overview of this episode and a full transcript of the conversation which you can find by the link in the show notes for by visiting our website, which is MarTechh 

Benjamin: If you're a subscriber to the MarTech podcast. Thank you for being a member of our community. Have you ever have questions, comments, suggestions for topics that you'd like us to cover, or if you want to be a guest on the MarTech podcast, you can click the contact us link, or you can find links to our social media or linkedin or twitter pages in the show notes where you can just search for Benjay Shap, that's B, e nj o s h a p. If you haven't subscribed yet, new on a weekly stream of marketing and technology knowledge and your podcast feed. We've got some great episodes lined up in the next few weeks, including our conversation about instagram media buying, so hit the subscribe button in your podcast app and we'll be back with you sometime next week. Okay. That's it for today, but until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy.