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Benjamin: This podcast is sponsored by Searchmetrics. Searchmetrics sets the standard for innovation and the content and search engine optimization industries. They support businesses who care about understanding both how to use content as a marketing channel and how to improve their organic rankings in Google. If you're an enterprise level marketer, then searchmetrics has software and services that will help you optimize your existing content, help you understand what topics you need to cover next, and how to ensure that your writers produce effective content. There are billions of Google searches happening everyday in Searchmetrics gets your stories to the top. 

Benjamin: Today we're going to talk about a medium of marketing that is obviously near and dear to my heart podcasting, to give you a little context. For those of you who are new to listening to this podcast. It's been almost three months since we launched and each month I gave an overview of how I think about marketing for this podcast as a part of our marketing mix. We tested running google ad words campaigns last month and found that keywords related to the topic, how to grow podcast generated some of our highest click through rates. I'm taking that as a signal that we should focus more of our efforts on teaching you our listeners about creating podcasts and podcast growth. So today we're going to talk to Carey Green, who was the founder of podcast fast track, which is a podcast production agency that helps podcasters have all levels automate their podcasting efforts. 

Benjamin: This week we're also going to do something a little different. We're going to publish one episode covering a specific topic each day, and they're all going to be related to podcasting today. Carrie is going to talk us through his background and the first of his five keys to building and scaling a podcast. Here's our interview with Carrie Green from podcast fast track. So Carrie, welcome to the MarTech podcast.

Carey: Thanks so much, Ben. It's great to be with you.

Benjamin: It's great to have an expert in podcasts, creation and advertising on our podcast. And why don't we start off by giving a little bit of context for our listeners. Tell us about your background. 

Carey: Well, my background had nothing to do with podcasting until about five years ago. I was a pastor for 20 some years serving in small churches throughout the United States. I did have a radio background from my college days, so I was interested in audio, just never had the time to really mess with it until about five years ago when I stepped out of that career and digital audio was on the scene by then and it was very intriguing to me. So I started playing around with it. Started my own podcast, began helping other people with their podcast just as kind of a way to put some food on the table and one of my people that I was helping at the time was a friend I had met over the Internet and he just one time in the middle of one of our conversations about his podcast said, you should do this as a business. And it was like the biggest light bulb that's ever gone off in my brain because I knew the pain point of podcasting already and that there was definitely a business model there to be found. So I got started back in 2013. Working on podcasting and providing all kinds of services for podcasters who are in love with their podcast, but too busy to do all the backend work. 

Benjamin: We're going to talk a lot about what your services are in depth over the rest of the week, but just give us an overview of what podcast fast track is one of the services you provide to your customers. 

Carey: Sure. Podcast, fast track is really a full service podcast production company. We can do everything from concierge type podcasting where somebody wants us to set up everything for their interview, for example, and they just show up and we record it. Do all the editing, show notes, posting to the website. Even promotional materials like audio grams and that kind of stuff. We can create from scratch, unique to the client, or if it's not a concierge thing, we can do all of those production and post production things. Also for podcasters who don't mind setting up their own things and just want to provide us the audio files. We can take that and provide all the resources they need as much or as little as we do that. On a weekly basis, weekly basis, monthly basis, whatever they need, we also provide launch consulting, all that kind of stuff that goes along with people who need expertise in getting into the industry. 

Benjamin: So you really work with podcasters, have all different levels of experience, people that are creating new podcasts and helping them with some consulting people that want to automate some of their services and then people that are experienced podcasters as well. Yeah. Any of the above. So tell me why the podcast, industry and podcast as a marketing channel is so interesting to you and tell us about what you know about the medium of podcasting and it's growth. 

Carey: Well, podcasting is interesting to me because of the buzzing little box we all have in our pockets. Smartphones have made it so easy to learn on the go, to learn wherever you are. A couple of weeks ago my wife and I were in New York City for a visit and we were on the subway a lot and I just noticed people all the time had earbuds in, sitting there as they're commuting to work. I do the same thing when I'm commuting from where I live into Denver, which is the nearest large city. I always load up my and podcasts and I'm listening and I think the mobility that we have for learning is really the opportunity behind podcasting. You're able to learn anything you want. You're able to be entertained with great stories. You're able to tune into a history podcast and bone up on your history. If that's of interest to you. 

Carey: You can even find out about chameleon breeding through a very successful podcast on that topic. Chameleon breeding. Truly, there is a very successful podcast on chameleon breeding. Very small audience, but you can imagine a very passionate one. Right, and the thing I've noticed about podcasting since I've gotten into it in 2013 is that the growth curve has done nothing but go up. We've had a stat released this last week, this is June of 2018, that there are over 550,000 podcasts in the itunes directory now and there are something like 2,500 new ones being added every week. That is incredible and it just goes to show that people are finding podcasts, people are beginning to really get addicted to them and it's a great medium for anybody who wants to get right in the earbuds. All of the very audience who wants what they have to offer. 

Benjamin: There's a couple of things that I think are interesting about where podcasting is as a medium right now. 

Benjamin: To me, there's a trend for people to move away from terrestrial radio, you know, listening to the radio in your car and looking for more on demand services. So there's the trend for like what's happening in television where people aren't tuning in at a specific time but looking for content that they know they want to consume. Like what's happening with Netflix and Amazon prime. So that's happening and audio and on the flip side where you're talking about 550,000 podcasts being available and more and more being added every day. There's a lot of content that's out there and it's very rich. On the flip side, when you look at written content, the blog posts and articles and the topics that are covered in text, the amount of content that's Ian, the podcast and audio that's been created and published is relatively small compared to if you're looking for an article on Google, so I think that there's still a lot of room for growth. Sure. Tell me about where you see the biggest areas for growth in the podcast industry and who's getting involved in the podcasting space. 

Carey: I don't have a crystal ball for sure. There's been a lot of things happen in podcasting already that I would not have foreseen, like the advent of story based podcasts in drama to highest podcasts and how big they've become. I was just learning from them, you know, they were coaches and entrepreneurs and business people explaining what they did and teaching what they did. When I got involved in. Now you've got all kinds of crazy things out there that are actually gaining lots of traction, so it's hard for me to say what kinds of things I see on the horizon. I see nothing but growth on the horizon for at least the short term and as far as the kinds of people who are getting into podcasting, it's everybody from hobbyists who just loved to talk about their dungeons and dragons or their knitting or whatever, all the way up to corporations who are doing more and more podcasts. I mean just this last month we saw the of skullcandy doing their own podcasts and other big name companies who are getting into the podcasting space and it's all about building a community around your brand, which I think is an incredibly genius way to go about promoting your brand and fostering client loyalty because the more they love your podcast, the more they're going to be engaged with the things you sell. 

Benjamin: So talk to me a little bit about that. I'm interested in hearing about your views on how companies are creating podcast content and what the rationale behind that is and how to companies create community. 

Carey: I think that the ways that people are creating their content happens in a variety of manners. There are some creators who were doing facebook live sessions and they're doing a q and a on facebook live and they all have this interaction there and build community, but then they will repurpose that audio into a podcast and many times those two audiences are very different audiences, but the content is relevant to both so they're using that magical word, repurpose to do the work once and then have it changed into a different format so they can reach a wider audience. I think that's the genius. There were a lot of people who are doing what we're doing right now, having conversations with experts in their industry and picking their brain about the things they've learned in the industry and then passing that on to others in the industry as a method toward promoting their own coaching service or their own expertise in the industry. 

Carey: There are people who are putting their books online in a spoken word form in podcasts, free of charge as a loss leader, so to speak, leading toward buying the actual print copy or eat copy of their book. They're just all kinds of ways that people are using podcasting. Two, expand their brand, I guess is the way that you would say it and as far as how that's happening there just as many ways as you can think of. I mean, yeah, the human being so creative people are coming up with new ways of doing it all the time. 

Benjamin: And you mentioned something interesting which was finding a very targeted audience. Tell me what you know about people who are listening to podcasts. How should people that are marketers or interested in marketing and technology think about the audience in podcasting? 

Carey: Well, I definitely think you need to think in terms of niche audience because every podcast obviously has a topic or a sphere in which they're speaking. In your example, marketing and tech. You need to be able to present your content in a way that people who are consuming information about that subject matter are going to find appealing. So it takes a lot of research on who your customers would be, who your ideal clients would be. Many podcasters who are really serious about it or actually creating client avatars or personas. That is mike the Marketer or whoever that they're trying to figure out who it is that they're aiming for and they design everything they do in their podcast in a way that would be appealing to that demographic and that person. Whether it's a chameleon breeding podcast or a marketing podcast. I think that's the way to go. You have to think of how will my content benefit my listeners? What's the value that I bring to the table? And the more that you can provide value, the more you're going to be able to build that listener loyalty and have people then begin virally sharing your content because they love it so much and it's the people who are in that space, in that niche who know others who are in the niche and are willing to spread the word. 

Benjamin: So if I had to summarize, the podcast industry is not only something that's growing rapidly. There's a fair amount of content that's there, but a lot of opportunities in terms of reaching niche audiences. They're also a very educated and generally have a higher household income probably because the access to smartphones where they can consume a lot of audio. Okay, that's a good stopping point and we're going to wrap up this episode of the Martec podcast. Thanks to carrie green from podcast fast track for joining us. If you'd like to hear the rest of Carrie's tips for growing a podcast will publish an episode every day this week, so hit that subscribe button in your podcast app and check back with us tomorrow morning for the next episode. If you can't wait until tomorrow and you'd like to learn more about Kerry and his business, got a podcast fast track.com pod c a s t e f a s t t r a C K.com. 

Benjamin: A special thanks to search metrics for sponsoring this podcast. If you're looking to grow your online presence, go to searchmetrics.com to request a free tour of their platform, and if you'd like to read the transcript of this podcast, we've published on our website Martech pod.com. If you're a subscriber to the MARTECH podcast. Thank you very much. We want you to feel like a member of our community, so if you ever have any questions or you'd like to be a guest on the show, feel free to reach out to us directly. You can find a contact link on our website Martech pod.com. You can also find us on twitter and Linkedin by searching Benjshap Shap, llc. We'd also love you to leave us a review in the apple itunes store, and if you haven't already subscribed to this podcast and you want a weekly stream of marketing and technology knowledge and your podcast feed. In addition to the next episode of our conversation with Carrie Green, we've got some other great episodes lined up in the next few weeks, so hit that subscribe button and we'll bring you some great content related to marketing and technology. Okay, that's it for today. Uh, in tomorrow's episode we're going to talk about what it takes to start growing a podcast. Until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy.

Benjamin: Welcome back to the MarTech podcast. This podcast is sponsored by searchmetrics. Searchmetrics sets the standard for innovation and the content and search engine optimization industries. They support businesses who care about understanding both how to use content as a marketing channel and how to improve their organic rankings in Google. If you're an enterprise level marketer, the search metrics, we'd have software and services will help you optimize your existing content, help you understand what topics you need to cover next, and how to ensure that your writers produce effective content. There are billions of google searches happening everyday and searchmetrics gets your stories to the top. 

Benjamin: Welcome back to the MarTech podcast. This podcast is sponsored by searchmetrics. Searchmetrics sets the standard for innovation and the content and search engine optimization industries. They support businesses who care about understanding both how to use content as a marketing channel and how to improve their organic rankings in Google. If you're an enterprise level marketer, the search metrics, we'd have software and services will help you optimize your existing content, help you understand what topics you need to cover next, and how to ensure that your writers produce effective content. There are billions of google searches happening everyday and searchmetrics gets your stories to the top. 

Benjamin: Today, we're going to continue our conversation that talks about podcasting. Our guest again is going to be Carey Green from podcast fast track. In Our last episode, Carey, talked to us a little bit about his experience in podcasting and how the podcasting medium is growing. In today's episode, we're going to focus our conversation on what it takes to start producing a podcast. Here's the second part of our interview with Carrie Green, so welcome back, Carrie Green. It's great to have you here again. 

Carey: Thanks Ben. Glad to be here. 

Benjamin: Okay, so in our last episode we talked about sort of an overview of the podcast industry and why people are creating podcasts and who are listening to them, and today I wanna talk about what it takes to produce a podcast, so let's walk through what your steps are for content production. Yeah, well there really has to be an idea behind the content. 

Carey: You have to have something to talk about and you have to be able to talk about it in a way that is not only intelligent but compelling. So I think before anybody starts thinking about technology or equipment or approach, they need to first of all to assess whether or not the idea they have is a good one. Some of the ways to do that is to jump in the itunes directory and start searching for podcasts that would be aimed toward the audience that you're hoping to reach. Speaking the kind of topics you're wanting to talk about and see what's out there, see what other people are doing, what are the things or covering, what are the things are not covering. You can do the same thing in Amazon. Go into the book section and search on those topics and see what people are talking about and just as much with they're not talking about and discover is there some places in this niche, in this industry that I want to speak to where I can bring something special, I can bring something unique that's not being talked about and I can do it with my own flavor, my own personality, his style in actually build a little community within the community that's already there. 

Benjamin: So step one is really ideation, figuring out what you're going to be talking about, and having some sort of an angle that makes your content compelling. Once you have the idea and you feel confident that you can create content, that's going to be interesting. What's the next step? 

Carey: I think the next step is to decide on how you want to present your content. Are you going to do that through interviews? Are you going to do that through a narrative style? Podcasts like you might hear for an mpr sort of a show or revisionist history for example. There's all kinds of ways you can increase the production value and make it more appealing, but you've got to know what's the approach I'm going to take. One of the approaches I don't hear often enough, honestly, is someone who's an expert in the field doing shorter episodes that are essentially a brain dump of their own experience and expertise for the benefit of others. I mean, can you think of a better way to build an individual relationship with someone who wants a needs? Your, for example, coaching services, say you were a sales coach. Then for you to be giving them a costco sample of what it is you're going to provide as a coach, you're giving them a taste every single time, so it's all about approach. How are you going to approach that subject matter? Is it going to be interviews? Is it going to be a coaching call? Is it going to be a combination of both? With podcasting, the beauty is you can do whatever you want in terms of format. You just need to figure that out ahead of time and start working toward it. So you've got the ideation phase. Then you have the presentation phase, I guess you would call it. How am I going to present this? I would call it format. Yeah, same thing. 

Benjamin: Okay, so figuring out what you're going to be talking about, figuring out the audience you're trying to reach, who's sort of your competition. Figure out how you're going to present your content. What's next? 

Carey: Next is figuring out how you're going to record it. This is where you get into the equipment. You're going to need a decent microphone, which I mean the one I'm using right now is less than 100 bucks, so it's not that expensive. You need to figure out to software. You're going to use to record. If you're doing interviews, you need to figure out how am I going to interview someone at a distance with good quality audio and let me stop for a moment and stress that good quality audio matters now just because of what we talked about on yesterday's episode. Yeah, so many new podcasts are showing up. You have a lot more competition even if they're not talking about your niche because it's time of year. It's time of listening that you're competing with and so you've got to have things that will differentiate you and great audio is one of those things, so good microphone, good recording software, good way to record distance conversations and then figuring out a system that you can follow after week after week that's going to allow you to consistently and reliably produce that great content. 

Benjamin: I think that's great advice. I would love any tactical tips you have in terms of gear and I'll just say that the microphone that I'm using is a blue yeti. It cost 150 bucks. It connects right to my laptop. There's no mixer involved and I've gone through a couple of different services. I've used Zen caster and I've used ringer to record audio. What are some of the tools that you've found that are affordable and high quality? 

Carey: Sure. The microphone I'm using right now is called an audio technica 2005. Same sort of setup as yours. It's a USB microphone that plugs right into my computer. If you're using just software to record yourself and say a solo kind of an episode, you can use a free program called audacity is great for that. You can use Garageband, me, there's all kinds of simple applications you can use, but there's even more complex when it's like adobe audition and pro tools and things like that. If you had those things. Another distance recording solution that I use quite often is called clean feed. You can find a clean feed.net and I believe it's got a free version of the software that you can use and then for post production stuff there's a software out there that's got a certain amount of hours free called auphonic which does leveling and compression and noise reduction and all that kind of stuff and really does a great job. In fact, you know our professional production service, that's the final step. We put all of our audio through auphonic because it is so good and if it's free man, make use of it. I think it's up to two hours a month you can use for free. 

Benjamin: Great. So once you get your content recorded, and I'll just recap the stages, you know, you figured out what your podcast is going to be about. You've come up with a unique format, you've recorded your interview or your monologue, but it through some post production tools. Then what are the other steps to getting published and getting your podcast actually launched? 

Carey: Well, you've got to put the audio together, you know, intro, outro, leveling, all of that. That auphonic takes care of some of that. Then you've got to get your show submitted to the places that can syndicate it out to where listeners are going to find it. The primary places or the itunes directory, which is now called Apple podcasts. You also have places like stitcher, Google play music. There are a handful of others. I had an episode of my podcast that goes through a whole bunch of them, but those are places where there's kind of a misunderstanding. People will say things to me like, Does Your Company upload my audio to Itunes or do I do that in? The reality is itunes is a directory. You don't upload anything to itunes. You're going to need a media host account, which is a service that hosts your audio files for you, or you can put it on Amazon s three, just somewhere. 

Carey: You can store the file and then you have to be able to create what's called an rss feed. You can do this through a website. You can do this through your media host, which is what I typically recommend, and then that feed that you're provided is what you submit to itunes, Google play, stitcher, and you do that one time and after you've done it, those platforms will typically approve you within 24 hours to 36 hours. You're shows now listed. Every time you publish something new to your feed, through your media host, it automatically pings itunes, stitcher, Google play, and they pull that content into their directory. So now that contents available for people to search, find your content and find your show. 

Benjamin: I've used a service called Libsyn. Sure. That's what I use. Lib Syn, which you can upload your content there and with the exception of the initial connection from your podcast to the apple, itunes store and Google Lipson. Generally just syndicates the podcast, all of the different podcast players. Okay, so we've talked about figuring out what your show's going to be about. We talked about figuring out how you're going to record it, actually getting the content recorded, getting it uploaded. That's the background of how to get a podcast started. 

Benjamin: Okay, that wraps up this episode of the Martec podcast. Thanks again to carrie green from podcast fast track for joining us. If you'd like to hear the rest of Carrie's tips to growing a podcast, we're publishing an episode every day this week, so hit the subscribe button on your podcast app and check back with us tomorrow morning for our next episode when we talk about podcast growth strategies. If you can't wait until tomorrow and you'd like to learn more about Kerry and his business, go to podcast fast track.com. Also a special thanks to search metrics for sponsoring this podcast. If you're looking to grow your online presence, go to searchmetrics.com to request a free tour of their platform. If you'd like to read the transcript of this podcast or if you'd like to get in touch with us, you can go to our website Martech pod.com. 

Benjamin: That's M, a r t e c h p o d dot Com. If you haven't subscribed to the podcast yet and you want a weekly stream of marketing and technology knowledge and your podcast feed, in addition to the rest of our conversation with Carrie Green, we've got some other great episodes lined up for you, so hit that subscribe button on your podcast app and we'll bring you some great marketing and technology content. Okay, that's it for today. We'll be back tomorrow with more of our conversation with carrie green from podcast fast track, but until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy.

Benjamin: This podcast is sponsored by Searchmetrics. Searchmetrics sets the standard for innovation and the content and search engine optimization industries. They support businesses who care about understanding both how to use content as a marketing channel and how to improve their organic rankings. In Google, if you're an enterprise level marketer, the search metrics, we'd have software and services will help you optimize your existing content, help you understand what topics you need to cover next, and how to ensure that your writers produce effective content. There are billions of Google searches happening everyday in searchmetrics. Gets your stories to the top. 

Benjamin: In today's episode, we're going to continue our conversation about podcasting with podcast, fast track founder Carey Green. In the last two episodes, we've talked about the growth of the podcast industry and what it takes to start building a podcast, and today's episode is going to walk us through growth strategies and the timelines for producing a podcast. Here's the rest of our interview with Carrie Green from podcast fast track. Welcome back, Carrie, it's great to have you here again. 

Carey: Hey, it's so fun to be talking about something I love, so thanks for having the opportunity available. 

Benjamin: This is our first time going through a week on one subject and so far we've covered your background why podcasts are great and some of the steps to actually getting a podcast created and published. So the next step to me is talking about what do you do once your podcast is live to get some attention to it to get some growth, and I also want to talk about what are some reasonable timelines in terms of achieving some milestones in terms of your growth. So let's start off when you have a new podcast and you're just getting it launched, how do you get people to listen to it? I think the first thing you need to do is figure out a launch strategy is what I would call it. This is before you've actually submitted your show to itunes or anywhere else, figuring out how am I going to make as big a splash as possible when this thing goes live and you do that by thinking through, 

Carey: First of all, where did the people who would want to listen to this podcast hanging out? You can find them in facebook groups. You can find them in Google plus groups if you're still on Google plus you can find them in reddit communities, all kinds of things. Then you don't want to be that guy who goes in and says, Hey, I've got a podcast. Did you hear about my podcast? Listen to my podcast. You don't want to be that guy. You want to go in and start building relationships, asking questions, listening to what people are talking about and interjecting when you have an appropriate opportunity. Hey, I'm going to be releasing a podcast about these very things. It's gonna launch on this date. I'd love it if you could check it out. Besides that, you want to draw in your own network, your own community, people who you have good relationships established with already. 

Carey: You can reach out to them, tell them your idea, tell them when it's going to be launching, and ask them if they'd be interested in being part of a launch team to help you promote. They may be willing to do that in one way or in many ways. They might promote on social media. They might do it to their email list. They might do it through some community, they're a part of, but regardless, you want to get as many people on board and enthused about your idea as you are, if possible before you even launch so that on launch day you have a lot of eyes on your podcast because they're being sent directly to it in the itunes directory and here's one of those kind of behind the scenes things. A lot of people don't know. People think that the more ratings and reviews you get an itunes and all that kind of stuff is going to bump you higher in the listings. 

Carey: It's actually not true. The only thing that apple cares about is subscriptions that happened to your show through itunes. So the more subscriptions you can get in any 48 hour window at the beginning or anytime in the life of your podcast, the more notice that's going to get on itunes radar and someone in itunes hand curates this stuff. So there's no real set in stone formula. But once they see lots of subscriptions happening for one show over a course of time, they tend to look at that and go, oh, this show is really gaining some traction and they might at their discretion, feature you on the itunes homepage with one of those big banner ads, and if they do, they'll contact you to let you know what's going to happen. They'll ask you for certain artwork in men that can be a really big boost, so that's why I launched, can be so effective is because you have the opportunity to not only get on the radar of the people who would listen, but also on the radar of Itunes, which will actually help you promote if you do it well enough. 

Carey: Besides the actual launch. I would say just consistent interaction in the communities where your audience hangs out. You need to be a well known person in that community. You need to be a generous person in that community. You need to be seen as a resource and you do that by doing exactly those things. Giving being generous, helping people being available so that when people have questions about your particular niche, you're able to point them to resources, it happens, you recorded on your podcast, you can be that resource to people in that way and over time it grows. So one thing that you didn't talk about was paid advertising and I think that's another possible channel. Do you recommend are pro or anti 

Benjamin: paid advertising to try to drive podcast adoption? 

Carey: I'm not pro or anti. I think it depends on the person in the niche that they're in. It also depends on their ability. Quite honestly. Some people just aren't going to have the money to do the paid advertising and I don't think it's absolutely necessary if you're willing to be patient for your show to grow because I believe every podcast has done well and is targeting a niche pretty well is going to grow over time. There will be different rates of growth in different caps or ceilings on that growth depending on the niche, but I think that it's possible to grow a podcast without the ad spend. Now, if you've got the budget, there are some really smart ways to do that. Ben, I think it was you that mentioned to me advertising on other podcasts that are aimed at your particular industry because they already have podcast listeners there to have people who understand podcasting. They don't have to figure out how to download an APP in order to find your show, so I think that was brilliant. So if you can pay to be on other people's podcasts that would match your audience, why not? I think if you've got the money, let's do it. 

Benjamin: Yeah. I think that was one of the early findings for me and one of the ways that we've been able to grow this podcast and always my marketing philosophy, create great content that people are going to enjoy and then try to get it to them where they're ready to consume content and so for us, get reaching podcast listeners while they're listening to podcasts seemed like a natural fit and we have a podcast interview with Chris Smith from Admin, which is the dynamic insertion podcast advertising tool that we've used. Now, if anybody's interested in learning more about that, they can go back and look for that in our archives. Talk to me a little bit about the timelines for podcast growth. When somebody new and starting out a podcast, what is a reasonable amount of scale for them to expect and how long does it take for them to reach their audience? 

Carey: Well, again, I'm going to have to say it depends on niche in. It depends on your marketing approach, but on average the stats that I've heard most recently are the average podcast throwing out the very highest in the very lowest. The mean number of downloads. Thirty days after publication of an episode is just over 150 downloads. You think about that, you know, well, that's not really that much. I hear people talk about 5,000 downloads. I hear people talk about 10,000 in comparatively. It's not that much, but what it's telling me is that podcast success is different than we usually define it to reach the average. It really doesn't take that much. If you do a good job of connecting with your niche audience and you do a good job of just being consistent with great content, I think you'll reach that 150 mark within three to four months probably, but you have to be patient if you're not doing big pushes with marketing dollars and those kinds of things because it grows kind of organically through word of mouth, through people finding out in podcast communities or social media communities. 

Carey: It's not a thing that's usually a one time event causes this huge spike in growth. Now I can give you one of a podcast that I actually produced that was an exception to this rule and there are some very specific reasons why it was an exception to this rule. We are all ears. Okay. Particular podcasts is called morning mindset and then the rest of the title is Christian devotional scriptural truth or something like that to get your day started. That's the focus of the podcast. First of all, I strategically chose keywords to put into the title that I knew my niche audience might be searching for. That's key because when people search in Itunes, they're gonna search by keyword, and the only fields that I tuned searches is the title field in the author field. They don't search descriptions, they don't search anything else. They only searched those two fields, so I optimize the title to be found by people who might be searching for that. 

Carey: Another strategic part of this was I launched that podcast on January first, right at the beginning of the year when people have new year's resolutions and they're thinking about, oh, I need to have some sort of a morning routine. I need to have some sort of a mindset thing. I need to have some sort of a scriptural devotional every morning and who knows how many of those people are going to search. Itunes will apparently a whole lot did because we started January first with zero downloads because we had no audience and within three to four months we're up to 1300 downloads per day. That's just in one case scenario. I didn't advertise. I didn't promote, I didn't do anything else. I think it's all because I got strategic about when would be the best time to launch, how can I maximize the title, what can I do to make it a helpful thing to the niche audience and it just happened that way. Sure. They were strategy behind it and some of it may have been a fluke, but by now we're up to almost 2000 downloads a day and the student really well. All that is not to impress anybody. It's just to impress upon you. If you go about this strategically, even without marketing dollars, you can make the thing fly. 

Benjamin: For those of you who haven't been following along with this podcast, we do a monthly update to talk about the growth and the marketing strategies that we apply to grow our podcast and for context in March when this launched, which wasn't a full month for us, but we had 84 downloads the entire month. In April, our second month we grew to 344 and then last month we were up to $1,400 for the month. That's with a small advertising budget. Less than a thousand dollars a month at this point, but I think the lesson here for me is that podcasting is a channel that is valuable because of the content reaching people in sort of long format. You can have a longer message, you can provide longer form valuable content, but it also takes a while to grow your following. 

Carey: It really does, and let me just make a little caveat about that title issue I mentioned you can at anytime change your title in your Lipson Dashboard. For example, in your media host, you can add keywords. You can take away words that aren't beneficial. Yeah, and it doesn't affect your listing in itunes at all except to improve your title for search. So if you've got a title that some quippy little cutesy title but really has no keywords for the audience you're trying to reach, I would suggest you put a colon behind that title, an ad, not keyword stuffing, but add keyword description that's relevant to your show that would enable you to maximize search 

Benjamin: without having had this conversation with you. We applied that exact strategy for our podcast originally. The podcast was titled Martec podcast with the goal of being the number one Martec podcast in the apple itunes store, and within the second month we were already ranking number one and we had hit for a brief period of time. We were in the top 200 of the apple itunes marketing and management podcasts. When I realized that we didn't set our sights high enough in terms of ranking for Martech, that was something we were able to capture in terms of the number one ranking relatively quickly, so I went and changed our title from Martech, Martech, colon marketing plus technology equals business growth, so now we're focusing this more on a marketing technology, business growth. Like those are the other key words that we want to be ranking for. 

Carey: Yeah, that's a great idea because you're going to pull in more people from save verticals to your initial keyword that are going to benefit from the content you're producing as well. 

Benjamin: On the flip side, there is some risk there because the keywords that we're adding to our title are also much more competitive, so it was relatively easy for us to be the number one for Martech, but now that we're trying to be the number one for marketing, what's going to be a longer road to hoe. Yeah, definitely. So one last question before I let you go today. What's the level of scale that podcasters should have in their mind in terms of a feeling like they've grown a meaningful audience? Be Understanding where there's an opportunity for monetization? 

Carey: Well, there's two questions there so I'll approach them individually. The first one is what's a meaningful scale? I think that word meaningful is the operative word and you've got to kind of define that for yourself. He personally, if I had 40 people in a room who came to hear me speak on the subject, I'd feel pretty encouraged. There's 40 people here who want to hear what I have to say, but for some reason when we broadcast to podcast episode and it only has 40 downloads, we talk in limiting terms, we say only 40 downloads. Well, that's 40 people in your audience who are listening to every word you're saying on that episode. I think that's pretty significant and that's meaningful. Now I know that kind of dodges the question because you're asking where can we make the numbers bigger and what should we actually be expecting to be able to reach in order to head toward that second part of your question? I'm going to interrupt you just for one second. 

Benjamin: Add a caveat. Sure. One of the thing that I don't think a lot of people think about when they're looking at podcasts stats is that downloads don't specifically mean listeners read. Those are people that are adding the podcast to their feet and a lot of people have it set so they're automatically downloading podcasts that they subscribed to. So hypothetically, the majority of people that are downloading your podcasts will listen it, but I do think you have to take a haircut, not to belittle the fact of 40 people that are downloading the podcast, even if it ends up being 30 that are listening to it, that is 30 people that you're having an impact on and being able to display a message which has inherent value in mostly doing something. You know, you mentioned that you were doing religious podcasts and trying to get a positive message towards people. Obviously there is an intrinsic value even if you're just reaching one person, but I do think it's important to sort of separate the idea of downloads and the people that are actually listening. With that said, we were about to talk about what are the levels of scale and specifically with an eye on when can you get to monetization? How should people think about when they're actually able to make beer money and make more than pocket change on their podcast? 

Carey: Yeah. Well, I think the typical number that the podcast advertising industry shoots for to even consider someone four and advertising campaign on their show is right at 5,000 downloads and that's the bottom line for being considered is that per month per episode is my understanding. Okay, and that's over a 30 day period after the episode is launched, so within 30 days you had 5,000 downloads and then big time advertisers would actually consider that show. Doesn't mean you'll get advertisers. There's a lot of competition out there, so the higher the numbers the better obviously, but as I think we're going to talk about tomorrow, that's not the only monetization strategy and in fact, in my experience, it's the least tenable for most people. I think there are some much better ways for the average podcast or to go about that. 

Benjamin: Okay, that's a good stopping point. And that wraps up this episode of the MarTech podcast. Thanks again to Carrie Green for joining us. If you'd like to hear the rest of our conversation with Carrie, including our conversation tomorrow, which we'll talk about. Podcast monetization, hit the subscribe button in your podcast App. And check back with us tomorrow morning. If you can't wait until tomorrow for our next episode and you'd like to learn more about carrying his business, go to podcast, fast track.com. Special thanks to search metrics for sponsoring this podcast. If you're looking to grow your online presence, go to searchmetrics.com to request your free tour of their platform. If you'd like to read the transcript of this podcast, or if you'd like to get in touch with us, you can find a contact form on our website, Mar Tech pod.com. That's m, a r t, e c h pod.com. 

Benjamin: You can also reach us on twitter and LinkedIn and our handle is Benjshap, llc. If you haven't subscribed yet and you want a weekly stream of marketing and technology knowledge and your podcast feed, in addition to the rest of our conversation with carrie green from podcast fast track.com, we've got some great episodes lined up for you in the next few weeks. So click that subscribe button and we'll get you as much great marketing and technology content as we possibly can. Okay. That's it for today, but until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy.

Benjamin: Welcome back to the MarTech podcast. This podcast is sponsored by Searchmetrics. Searchmetrics sets the standard for innovation and the content and search engine optimization industry. They support businesses who care about understanding both how to use content as a marketing channel and how to improve their organic rankings. In Google, if you're an enterprise level marketer, the searchmetrics suite of software and services will help you optimize your existing content, help you understand what topics you need to cover next, and how to ensure that your writers produce effective posts. There are billions of google searches happening everyday and searchmetrics gets your stories to the top today. We're going to continue our week long conversation about a medium that's obviously near and dear to my heart, podcasting. 

Benjamin: For those of you who haven't heard our episodes from earlier this week, we're talking to Carey Green, who is the founder of podcast fast track, which is a podcast production agency that helps podcasters have all levels of experience automate their podcasting efforts. If you didn't hear the previous episodes from earlier this week, carry, walked us through how he got involved in podcasting and gave us an overview of the podcast industry, how to start a podcast, and what it takes to achieve scale. 

Benjamin: If you're just getting started in podcasting, they're great episodes and I recommend you go back and give them a listen,  and in today's episode Carey is going to talk us through his thoughts on podcast monetization. Here is the fourth installment of our conversation about podcasting with Carey Green of podcast. Fast track. Carey, it's great to have you back here. 

Carey: Good morning, Ben. Glad to be back. 

Benjamin: Today we're going to talk about a topic near and dear to my heart. We're going to talk about monetization. In our last episodes. We sort of walked through why podcasts are interesting, how people can grow their podcasts and what they can expect in terms of how long it takes to grow their listenership. Let's turn the page. Once you're starting to grow an audience, what are the ways that you can make your podcast into a monetize mobile asset? 

Carey: Yeah, monetization really as individual as the podcaster in the niche. I think that the first way to start, even though it doesn't involve taking money from people at first, is building an email list. Having some way that you can get your listeners to give you their email, whether that's through some kind of an opt in offer, maybe it's a free ebook or case study or something and it's all obviously relevant to your topic that you're talking about on your episodes. For example, there's a service that we offered. Our company we call lead magnets in the way it works is somebody on our team. We'll listen through the episode, create essentially an Infographic pdf that is an action sheet based on the content of the episode and the podcast or will announce on that particular episode. You can get our action sheet for this episode by going to give the address. 

Carey: People go, they opt in to get the resource sheet and he's building an email list. The reason email is just so valuable is because of that I tried but true saying the riches are in the niches and the money's in the list because then you have an audience who's already shown that they're interested in your topic, willing to give you their email address. You can communicate with them directly when you do have things to offer them that they can purchase, so I think for your average podcast or building an email list and then working toward kinds of things, you can offer your audience as a true valuable offer that they would be willing to purchase is the way to go. We're not going to get into sales funnels and all that kind of stuff, how it works, but there are ways to graduate that as you go and build bigger and bigger offers that smaller percentages of your list will buy into, but because it's bigger money, you're making more money even with just one purchase, so it depends on your context, your topic that you're talking about, but it can be done and it can be done quite successfully even more so than advertising in many respects. 

Benjamin: So essentially what you're saying is the first way to start monetizing your podcast is understanding who is your podcast listeners and being able to present them with products for them to purchase. And generally the outreach channel is email. 

Carey: Yeah, or just a mention on your podcast. I know people who have a midroll spot, in fact I do this on my podcast. There is a mid roll spot for an advertisement, but it's always my advertisement. It's me doing a live read of some service we offer and we're starting to get people responding to those things. We offer a slight discount when we do that so that people can tell us. I heard it on episode one, Oh four, and we give them that discount for trying out our service and it's a way to ease people into a relationship with you on a consumer basis that they may not have been able to do before. 

Benjamin: So for people that are just starting out and they're trying to start with monetization and they have a product, you can start building an email list and promoting the sale of that product to your user base. There's a class of podcasters that don't necessarily have a product to sell. What are some of the ways that they can monetize the content that they're producing? 

Carey: Well, I think first of all, it gets started on a product to sell. If you're podcasting with any kind of expertise, your field, you should be able to come up with something that's truly valuable, but beyond that I think that you can go out and individually court advertisers yourself. You don't have to be at that 5,000 download range to be able to get advertisers who were interested in reaching the very specific niche audience that you're speaking to. For example, we have a client who is a fine artist. She does plein air painting. She used to work for Disney. I mean she's just this amazing artist and she does a podcast for artists and she interviews famous artists and they talk about their technique and how they get their inspiration and what they do in terms of their studio time. She talks about all that stuff and she went to some of her favorite brush suppliers and paint suppliers, et Cetera, and told them about her podcast and here's who listens to my podcast. 

Carey: Here's the people I have on my podcast, and she now has sponsors who come onboard to sponsor her show. I don't know what her rates are, but I know she's at least paying for her media, hosting her production services and little bit on top of that, including getting paint supplies from these people because they sponsored her, kind of like a race car driver getting sponsored by a company. They're given little perks because of it, so that to me is the middle ground. That's where you slip it in and you get your feet wet with advertising and you see what it's like and I think the more relational and personal that relationship can be, which it can be in a niche field like that, the better because you're going to be able to interact with that person in a way where you're helping them be successful as an advertiser, sharing with them your download stats, sharing ideas with them about what you think they could offer that would be of more value to your audience, and you really become partners in that way. You're making them successful while they are helping you to be successful. That's a great way to go. 

Benjamin: So you mentioned something about showing who is listening to your audience, to potential advertisers, which brings up the question of where do you find the data for who is actually your podcast listeners? Tell me about what data sources that you know, where people can understand who's in their audience. 

Carey: Yeah, as far as demographic and who is actually in your audience. The only ways I know to do it is through either a facebook community where you're inviting your listeners only to join the community and they joined. You get to interact with them and you're able to see a demographic. You can actually see the numbers of people as it grows and you can kind of look at their individual profiles and see who they are. Using facebook ads, you can create look alike audiences similar to what's in your group so you can get some real data on who these people are, what they buy, what they're interested in. All of that sort of stuff. So facebook groups though, I've seen a lot of people lately abandoning them because they're such high maintenance, but I think it's a great way to really get to know the details of who your audience is. 

Carey: Besides that you can see download numbers through your media host, but you can't see who those people are. That's part of the privacy issues that are involved with podcasting, so it's a difficult nut to crack, but I think the download numbers alone speak to people interested in your topic and when you have a show like the one ag reference to that is so niched in and so specific to a certain kind of person who would purchase exactly what had advertiser has to sell. I think it's a pretty easy sell to get that person to see their audiences. Listening to your show. 

Benjamin: One of the things that I've done is trying to redirect our listeners to read the transcript of our podcast. I know that you have a service that we'll talk about in our next episode which talks about transcriptions and summaries and what content do you produce for your listeners that they would find valuable. And if you could redirect them to your website, you can gather some demographic data using google analytics and there are some other services, once you get someone to a website to understand who they are, they're also services like pod track, which try to give you some demographics based on who your podcast listeners. So there's a few other resources that are out there. The elephant in the phone booth here is one year doing a podcast and you are trying to reach sponsors. You know, there are some institutional advertisers are advertising companies that can help you make a fair amount of money if your audience is big enough. So tell me what you know about sort of the enterprise level advertising industry in podcasting. 

Carey: Well, you know, we've all probably heard podcasts with casper mattress or something like that. Advertising audible. Yeah. You hear these same names. Squarespace, big one. Yeah. Squarespace's another me. Andy's everywhere. Exactly. Yeah. They're everywhere. And spanx I think is starting to show up on podcast as well. We must listen to different podcasts and we must. Yeah. Well I listened to all kinds because of the work we do. So I listened to some, I would rather not, you can believe that, but I think that the more targeted your podcast topics are to the actual things being advertised on your show, the more successful it's going to be for your advertiser and thus they will hang around longer as a sponsor your show. So while you can reach certain numbers in, get someone like Casper mattress or whoever to be a sponsor your show, I feel like that's a short term gain for most podcasters because yeah, you're getting a little bit of money coming in at first, but unless your particular audience is super excited about that product and keeps buying it and keeps buying it and keeps buying it, that advertisers going to see their revenue could be spent better somewhere else. 

Carey: So as far as the big name, industrial advertisers and all that, there are lots of them out there. There. A lot of people interested. Even media hosts like Libsyn, have relationships with advertisers where they can set you up when you reach certain download numbers with an advertising partner. That's all great. I think if it fits your niche and if it fits who you are trying to reach, great, but I would rather not have an advertisement on my show if it doesn't fit my audience than have one just because it brings in money and it not fit my audience because I think that speaks something to your audience. It tells your audience, you're really in this for the money. You don't really care about them, which in the long run is going to shoot you in the foot. I think from that long term perspective, you need to be thinking always about the for your listener, 

Benjamin: and that includes sponsors. I think from the business perspective, you touch on a very important point which is if your sponsors are not a good fit, that's one of the most likely reasons why someone will stop listening to your podcast is they feel like they're being sold to and they're not getting enough value to get through the advertisements and they're not relevant to them. 

Benjamin: Okay, that wraps up this episode of the MarTech podcast. Thanks again to Carey Green for joining us. If you're interested in learning more about Carey and podcast fast track, got a podcastfast track.com. Our special thanks to searchmetrics for sponsoring this podcast. If you're looking to grow your online presence, go to searchmetrics.com to request your free tour of their platform. If you'd like to read the transcript of this podcast, we've published it on Martech pod.com. If you're a subscriber to the MARTEC podcast, thank you. We want you to feel like a member of our community, so if you ever have questions or comments or if you'd like to be a guest on the show, feel free to reach out to us by visiting our website Martech pod.com, where you can contact us on Linkedin or twitter by searching for our handle, which is Ben j Dot Shap, Llc b e nj  a s h, a p llc where you can click on the link in our show notes. If you haven't subscribed yet and you want a weekly stream of marketing and technology knowledge and your podcast feed. We've got some great episodes lined up in the next few weeks, including one more episode with our friend Carey Green from podcast fast track, so hit that subscribe button in your podcast App. Okay, that's it for today, but until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy.

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